Thursday, November 21, 2024

Show Notes

Join Matt Cook with guests Brent Grant and Ryan French as they dive into the PGA Tour's earning assurance program and the complications of the $500,000 advance. They discuss tax implications, responsibilities, and the impact on players like Taylor Montgomery. The conversation covers proposed changes in payment and tax structures, power dynamics, Monday qualifiers, and the disparity between the Tour's narrative and reality. They also analyze media influence, feel-good stories, and Tiger Woods' impact. Brent Grant shares insights on the PGA Tour and LIV Golf, concluding with a look at the Tour's darker aspects.

(0:00) Introduction and welcome; Guests Brent Grant and Ryan French
(1:24) PGA Tour's earning assurance program and $500,000 advance issues
(7:06) Tax implications and responsibilities
(17:28) PGA Tour's handling of tax situation and player impact
(30:28) Taylor Montgomery's situation and PGA Tour's reputation
(34:01) Proposals for payment and tax changes; Tour structure
(42:57) Power dynamics and Monday qualifiers
(50:14) Competition limits and PGA Tour's narrative vs. reality
(54:40) Media influence and importance of feel-good stories
(57:43) Sentiments on PGA Tour's direction and Tiger Woods' influence
(59:39) Brent Grant's perspective on PGA Tour and LIV Golf irony
(1:02:32) Conclusion: The dark side of the PGA Tour and closing remarks

Show Transcript

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Welcome back everybody to Pull Hook Golf, the
podcast.

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I'm your host, Matt Cook.

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Today, we've got a special episode for you.

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We've got Mr.

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Brent Grant here, who is our co-host and our
tour insider and also a tour member.

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And then we've got another very special guest
today as well, Mr.

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Ryan French from Monday Q Info.

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Welcome gentlemen to this special edition of
the podcast.

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And it all stems from something that happened
to you, Brent, and something that you wrote

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about recently, Ryan.

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Actually, the article that you wrote was
fantastic.

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It's called "In the Hole."

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And this is our topic today.

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So we're gonna be talking a little bit about
the dark side of the PGA Tour that a lot of

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people aren't aware of or familiar with because
guess what?

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Major media is not covering these topics that
are going on in the underbelly of the PGA Tour.

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And so we're going to go over the PGA Tour's
earnings assurance program and the tax debacle

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that affected so many players.

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But first, let's start off with the background
to this entire thing.

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Ryan, why don't you give us a bit of background
to the overall program that we're talking

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about?

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Yeah.

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2022, Jay Monahan and the PGA Tour.

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First of all, thanks guys for having me on,
Brent.

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Thanks.

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And absolutely.

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It was, yeah.

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So 2022, LIV is starting to actually become a
thing, and, you know, they're getting a lot of

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money.

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So the PGA Tour kind of scrambled for ways to
be like, look at us.

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We're doing things too.

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And so one thing they came up with was an
advance of $500,000, which is a good thing.

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There's no complaints about the advance itself.

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It's how it was handled from there.

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But, yeah.

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So players were supposedly given the choice,
although we've come to find out that that's not

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the case, to accept this $500,000.

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Rookies got it up front.

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Veterans got the difference if they didn't make
$500,000 at the back end of the season.

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Basically, it's an advance, and also a
forgivable loan.

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If you did not make $500,000, whatever you
know, the difference was forgiven.

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So that was the gist of the program.

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It's good in theory.

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It's good in practice if the PGA Tour had done
the things that I think they should have done.

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And so, yeah, that's kind of where this article
stemmed from, that advance.

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I love that.

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And, well, I love the fact that you just broke
it down like that so simply and really ties

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into exactly what we were talking about in the
article.

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And the part that is interesting to me is that
the players apparently in an email were given

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the ability to decline this $500,000.

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However, when it actually came out, nobody
could actually decline it.

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And I believe you spoke with one player who was
like, it just showed up in my account even

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though I didn't want to take it.

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Yeah.

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I have a copy of the email sent to me by a
player, and it's, you know, it says in a very

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better way than I'm gonna say it, like, hey.

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You have a choice.

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And then, yeah, one player I spoke with, he's
like, I didn't want it.

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His big thing was, like, very just, hey.

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I like to play when I make a cut on Wednesday
or whatever.

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I think that's when you get paid, Brent.

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Correct me if I'm wrong.

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Like, on Wednesday, I just like to see the
deposit.

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It's like my reward, whether it's $3,000 at a
Korn Ferry event or $100,000, it's just I like

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to see it, so I didn't want it up

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And so, you know, his was like, hey.

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I'm not gonna take it.

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If I don't make $500,000, they'll send it to me
at the end.

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So everybody had their own.

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Like, guys could get it if you want to invest
in, you know, a TrackMan or there's a lot as

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Brent knows way better than I.

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You know, golf is very expensive, and so to
compete on the PGA Tour, swing coaches and

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physio guys and TrackMans are a huge upfront
cost.

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So, you know, some guys would want it upfront.

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Most guys would, I think, that were rookies.

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But they didn't give him a choice.

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That player told me that it just showed up in
his account one day.

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Other players asked to have it deferred to 2023
for tax purposes.

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They said no.

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You know?

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Again, and I don't think ever the PGA Tour does
this stuff purposefully to screw the players,

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but they just don't know what they're doing.

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And then when problems arise, they're just
gonna do what's best for them, and the players

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are gonna get in the way.

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It's, I mean, you put it very politely.

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I would go on to say that, yes, the purpose
behind this had good intentions.

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Right?

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This was supposed to be a positive thing, but
how they handled it was very poorly.

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And now let's get into the actual fact that
there was no contract behind this either.

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So, Brent, did you ever sign anything in order
to receive this money?

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I mean, tell me a little bit about kind of the
process that it went through.

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Yeah.

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So, like Ryan was saying, you know, halfway, I
believe, through the 2022 season, they were

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talking about, you know, some sort of program
that they were talking about, that outlined

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some sort of base salary, that they were
looking at other sports.

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And they said, well, you know, baseball,
football, basketball, and whatever all have

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these, quote, unquote, league minimums.

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And, you know, we think we should have that
league minimum as well.

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And, again, much like, you know, a lot of the
changes with the tour over the last three to

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five years, you know, they come in with, you
know, a really positive thought, you know, and

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maybe even have, you know, some more positive
thoughts to back that up, but eventually, it

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turns very, very sour.

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So, and this was no different.

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In fact, actually, I would even call this
probably the most egregious change that they've

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made to date until the most recent
announcement, but we've got another year to see

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what happens with that.

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What Brent's talking about here, folks, is the
fact that he's not calling the 500k egregious.

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Okay?

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He's not saying, hey.

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Throw 500 grand in my account, and that's a
terrible thing.

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You've done an awful thing.

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Like I said, I feel like the tour was trying to
do something good that everybody was pushing

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towards, which is covering the cost.

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I've talked with other Korn Ferry Tour players
that have been in debt up to $150,000 after a

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season of playing out there because of all the
travel.

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And Ryan, you put it very well with all the
technology.

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I mean, you really have to build out a team now
around you in order to be able to perform at

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the highest level.

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And so that costs a lot of money in order to
put all those pieces around you.

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By the egregious part is that they received the
$500,000 and then all of a sudden were taxed on

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it at the end of the year because the PGA tour
was like, woah, hang on a second.

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We we kind of fucked up here.

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Okay.

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We we kind of messed up.

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We didn't take out taxes.

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We didn't know that you were gonna have to pay
taxes on this.

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So Brent, take me through what happened right
before Christmas as to you getting notified

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about this.

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Yeah.

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So, first thing I'll say is, no, we didn't sign
a contract with regards to any of the money.

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There was never a piece of paper that was put
in front of us.

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I believe we got an email detailing how the
payback would work.

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So we took that and ran with it for the entire
year.

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And then right before Christmas, I believe
three days before Christmas, I got a phone call

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from the tour player relations people, and,
essentially, to sum it all up, it was, yeah, we

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messed up.

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You owe us $67,000.

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We didn't see this coming and oops.

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Sorry.

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And, the subsequent conversations afterwards
were detailing where that number came from and

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essentially what it came from was the tour paid
us the $500,000 and through the money that we

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made to pay that back.

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The states wanted their cut of that money, and
so the PGA Tour had to pay that somehow

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because, obviously, we didn't get it because we
paid the PGA Tour.

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So they ended up paying that money for us.

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And then, essentially, what they figured out
was that they were gonna make that burden, and

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take that burden and put it onto us, all of us
that didn't keep our card.

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Right?

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Going down to a tour where you make a tenth of
what is made on the PGA Tour.

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That's not an exaggeration.

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And then to sum it all up, we asked, well, is
this gonna happen to the 2023 or 2024 rookies?

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You know, what have you guys learned?

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And how can we make sure this doesn't happen
again?

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Well, they just said, well, yeah.

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Now we just withhold 100,000 from that 500, and
then, you know, we just take it out from there

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and, you know, pay the difference at the end of
the year.

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And we're sorry.

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You know, it won't happen again, but you're
gonna have to owe us.

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And I mean, you know, $67,000 is a lot of
money, and I believe they chopped it down by

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18,000 of noncash benefits, which was basically
them paying the health insurance company on my

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behalf, which would usually come out of the
earnings that I had.

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I told myself I wasn't gonna do this in this
episode because it's very serious, but it's

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just that type of somber type of mood around
this entire thing.

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So let's talk about the mistake that was made
here.

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Ryan, who made the mistake here?

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Was it on the players that, hey, you guys
should have known that you're gonna have tax

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implications here?

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Or was this a mistake made by the tour to where
they kind of rushed this program out?

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And then from there, we're like, oh, shit.

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We gotta pay taxes on this money.

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Yeah.

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I mean, here's the thing I always say since
I've talked about this article a few times is,

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listen, I know nothing about taxes.

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Nothing.

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But I know that if I hand somebody $500,000 as
a company, that I should probably explore the

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tax ramifications of that.

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And then I'll go a step farther is the PGA Tour
knows that pro golfers have an already

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complicated tax system for those listening.

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You have to pay taxes in every state that you
earn money in.

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So and this is even another layer of very
complicated tax code.

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I talked to 12 CPAs for this article, and all
you know, there were probably nine different

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answers among the 12.

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Right?

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So here is the issue is, like, if you say it's
the player's fault, two things.

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One, we'll get into the actual taxes of it and
why they paid taxes before they earned money.

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But the second part of it is, again, the PGA
Tour should've said something up front.

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And then the first tournament that they
realized that this was an issue, whatever

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tournament that was, I'm gonna argue it was
super early.

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Okay?

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You owe it to your members to go even if it was
this article wouldn't have been written if in

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after the Sony in January, if that's when they
learned that there was an issue.

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Sure.

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They immediately sent an email to the people
who got the $500,000 up front and went, hey,

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guys.

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Listen.

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We're not sure how to handle this.

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We've made a mistake.

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Here's the issue.

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Laid out the issue and said, make sure you talk
to your CPA.

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We've talked to our CPAs.

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We're not sure how to handle it.

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It's a very complicated tax code come April.

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And you wanna come to us.

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We'll help answer the questions.

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We'll get you in touch with our CPAs.

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This article wouldn't have been written.

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This is not like, listen.

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Take the taxes out of it.

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The PGA Tour owes its members to communicate.

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Mhmm.

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And let's—I don't know how you hand $500,000
and don't make people sign something and don't

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think of the tax ramifications of it.

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But let's say we forgive that part, and then
you realize you made a mistake.

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Okay.

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00:13:17,274 --> 00:13:21,514
Then you owe it to your members to just simply
send the email I just said.

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That's it.

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That's it.

218
00:13:23,250 --> 00:13:31,670
This isn't again, the tax side of it is the
players got $500,000 as an advance.

219
00:13:32,290 --> 00:13:38,554
They assumed a lot of CPAs, agents, tax guys
assumed that that check came from Florida,

220
00:13:38,554 --> 00:13:39,375
which it did.

221
00:13:39,434 --> 00:13:40,654
So they paid taxes.

222
00:13:41,195 --> 00:13:46,394
I think what's getting lost in this is that
sometimes from the people coming back is it's

223
00:13:46,794 --> 00:13:48,095
players paid taxes.

224
00:13:48,554 --> 00:13:49,855
They paid it in April.

225
00:13:50,000 --> 00:13:51,360
They paid federal taxes.

226
00:13:51,360 --> 00:13:54,019
That was probably a $150,000 check.

227
00:13:54,240 --> 00:13:55,539
They paid state taxes.

228
00:13:56,799 --> 00:14:01,519
It happened that a lot of them thought that
there wasn't any state tax associated with it

229
00:14:01,519 --> 00:14:03,220
because their check came from Florida.

230
00:14:03,444 --> 00:14:09,225
And a lot of the players hadn't even earned
close to $500,000 in April of 2023.

231
00:14:09,845 --> 00:14:14,745
So even if they wanted to assign it to a state,
there was no state to assign it to.

232
00:14:15,284 --> 00:14:19,779
That's where the tax where CPAs have nine
different answers.

233
00:14:20,240 --> 00:14:27,279
So it all comes back to at Sony, when they
realized there was an issue, you owe it to your

234
00:14:27,279 --> 00:14:30,399
members to send out a simple email that says,
hey.

235
00:14:30,399 --> 00:14:31,539
This is super complicated.

236
00:14:31,679 --> 00:14:32,924
We didn't think through this.

237
00:14:35,004 --> 00:14:35,964
Talk to our CPAs.

238
00:14:35,964 --> 00:14:37,024
Talk to your CPA.

239
00:14:37,485 --> 00:14:47,004
You don't call people who have lost their job
on a missed Q-School four days before Christmas

240
00:14:47,004 --> 00:14:49,120
and let them know that they owe $60,000.

241
00:14:49,820 --> 00:14:50,639
That's it.

242
00:14:50,860 --> 00:14:51,899
That's all there is to it.

243
00:14:51,899 --> 00:14:52,500
This is, yeah.

244
00:14:52,700 --> 00:14:53,500
This is not a comp.

245
00:14:53,659 --> 00:14:56,480
Take all the taxes and all the tax code out of
it.

246
00:14:56,620 --> 00:14:58,059
You don't do that to your members.

247
00:14:58,059 --> 00:15:03,535
I wouldn't do it to my employees, and I know
they're not employees, but they're members of

248
00:15:03,535 --> 00:15:06,654
your organization that are an intricate part.

249
00:15:06,654 --> 00:15:08,014
You just wouldn't do it to them.

250
00:15:08,014 --> 00:15:09,134
That makes it even worse.

251
00:15:09,134 --> 00:15:09,455
Right?

252
00:15:09,455 --> 00:15:11,875
Being members even more so than employees.

253
00:15:13,070 --> 00:15:13,230
Yes.

254
00:15:13,230 --> 00:15:13,616
Yeah.

255
00:15:13,616 --> 00:15:14,776
Again, yeah.

256
00:15:15,163 --> 00:15:18,750
Taxes are a huge part of pro—Brent knows this
way better than I.

257
00:15:18,990 --> 00:15:25,230
The taxes, you pay 25 state taxes and you like,
different state taxes.

258
00:15:25,230 --> 00:15:31,274
Like, it's a prominent part of off-the-course
shit that goes on every year.

259
00:15:31,335 --> 00:15:33,514
They know how important tax stuff is.

260
00:15:33,654 --> 00:15:35,274
This isn't like a surprise.

261
00:15:35,735 --> 00:15:36,054
Nope.

262
00:15:36,054 --> 00:15:44,500
Like, taxes are a huge, huge part of
off-the-course life as a pro golfer.

263
00:15:45,120 --> 00:15:48,899
So it makes it even more egregious that it was
not communicated.

264
00:15:48,959 --> 00:15:49,919
That's all there is to it.

265
00:15:49,919 --> 00:15:50,079
Yeah.

266
00:15:50,079 --> 00:15:54,995
And as you're talking about it, Ryan, it really
makes me think too that because this was an

267
00:15:54,995 --> 00:15:55,794
advance, right?

268
00:15:55,794 --> 00:15:59,014
That they're going to take the money back from
your winnings.

269
00:16:00,274 --> 00:16:04,615
That's what actually complicates it even more
so because if it was just a paid-out salary,

270
00:16:04,995 --> 00:16:07,829
let's say, then that's coming from Florida.

271
00:16:07,829 --> 00:16:10,730
You don't owe the state taxes in Florida
because there are none.

272
00:16:11,029 --> 00:16:17,509
However, it's because the PGA Tour is now
recollecting that money throughout the year at

273
00:16:17,509 --> 00:16:18,970
each one of the locations

274
00:16:19,429 --> 00:16:20,629
in which the employee has

275
00:16:20,629 --> 00:16:21,289
more money.

276
00:16:21,654 --> 00:16:21,894
Yes.

277
00:16:21,894 --> 00:16:24,054
And they're not employees, right?

278
00:16:24,054 --> 00:16:26,855
So I talked to CPAs who are like, oh, this
happens all the time.

279
00:16:26,855 --> 00:16:27,815
People get advanced.

280
00:16:27,815 --> 00:16:28,615
Well, they're employees.

281
00:16:28,615 --> 00:16:30,075
They're not independent contractors.

282
00:16:30,134 --> 00:16:33,975
Then it's not really—it's not a loan.

283
00:16:33,975 --> 00:16:37,669
Some CPAs were like, oh, you just claim it as a
loan.

284
00:16:37,669 --> 00:16:40,889
Well, it's not really a loan because it's a
forgivable loan.

285
00:16:40,949 --> 00:16:49,689
So, again, all of that adds up into you talk to
9 to 12 CPAs, 9 different answers.

286
00:16:50,644 --> 00:16:54,485
That's when, as the PGA Tour, you go to your
players and go, hey.

287
00:16:54,485 --> 00:16:55,924
Make sure that this is straight.

288
00:16:55,924 --> 00:16:56,644
That's it.

289
00:16:56,644 --> 00:17:01,944
This is relatively simple from the standpoint
of you made a mistake.

290
00:17:02,245 --> 00:17:03,944
I don't know how that mistake happens.

291
00:17:04,250 --> 00:17:08,330
And then you go to your members that you're
supposed to protect all members and say, here's

292
00:17:08,330 --> 00:17:08,970
the issue.

293
00:17:08,970 --> 00:17:10,970
Make sure you are on the up and up.

294
00:17:10,970 --> 00:17:12,350
We'll help if you need to.

295
00:17:13,769 --> 00:17:16,730
The shocking thing to me is what happens next.

296
00:17:16,730 --> 00:17:17,049
Right?

297
00:17:17,049 --> 00:17:20,954
With the actual solution that the tour came up
with.

298
00:17:21,335 --> 00:17:26,454
And why don't you take us through that quickly,
Ryan, around what was the result?

299
00:17:26,454 --> 00:17:28,055
Like, what ended up happening?

300
00:17:28,055 --> 00:17:30,075
We obviously know that there's a tax
implication.

301
00:17:30,679 --> 00:17:35,179
Did the tour do the right thing, or did they
end up putting it onto the players directly?

302
00:17:35,960 --> 00:17:36,279
Yeah.

303
00:17:36,279 --> 00:17:41,740
I mean, so, you know, they made the players pay
it back.

304
00:17:42,599 --> 00:17:44,625
Some did it up front.

305
00:17:44,765 --> 00:17:46,625
Some did it with their first check.

306
00:17:47,164 --> 00:17:51,984
Brent would be in the group that, you know,
paid it off throughout the season.

307
00:17:53,005 --> 00:17:54,625
Still not done yet, by the way.

308
00:17:54,765 --> 00:17:55,244
Yeah.

309
00:17:55,244 --> 00:17:56,625
Brent's still not done.

310
00:17:57,670 --> 00:18:04,390
And, you know, again, you could argue this
point.

311
00:18:04,390 --> 00:18:10,970
People can argue this point, but I think, you
know, the combined total is probably $250,000.

312
00:18:11,509 --> 00:18:14,154
The PGA Tour is a drop in the bucket.

313
00:18:14,294 --> 00:18:14,775
Right?

314
00:18:14,775 --> 00:18:22,134
And if you don't wanna put the full blame on
the PGA Tour, there's no argument that they

315
00:18:22,134 --> 00:18:25,015
share in the blame, but not even close.

316
00:18:25,015 --> 00:18:25,515
Right?

317
00:18:26,160 --> 00:18:29,600
The communication factor, the fact that it
wasn't up front, all of those things.

318
00:18:29,600 --> 00:18:30,100
Right?

319
00:18:30,720 --> 00:18:35,519
They give away tens of millions of dollars to
top players all the time, and I have nothing

320
00:18:35,519 --> 00:18:36,340
against that.

321
00:18:36,559 --> 00:18:37,920
You could just be like, hey, guys.

322
00:18:37,920 --> 00:18:38,820
We made a mistake.

323
00:18:39,894 --> 00:18:42,714
Understand that if this happens again, you
would owe us this amount.

324
00:18:43,815 --> 00:18:44,634
We're sorry.

325
00:18:44,855 --> 00:18:45,755
You're lucky.

326
00:18:46,694 --> 00:18:47,674
Thanks for coming.

327
00:18:48,214 --> 00:18:49,194
Have a good day.

328
00:18:50,214 --> 00:18:57,430
Again, three days before Christmas kinda sums
up, you know, kinda sums up what the PGA Tour

329
00:18:57,430 --> 00:18:58,710
thinks of their employee.

330
00:18:58,950 --> 00:19:02,309
You're talking to seven to ten guys who just
lost their

331
00:19:02,309 --> 00:19:02,789
job.

332
00:19:02,789 --> 00:19:03,269
Mhmm.

333
00:19:03,269 --> 00:19:03,430
And

334
00:19:03,430 --> 00:19:06,089
then because of your mistake,

335
00:19:09,484 --> 00:19:11,565
they're even more more than

336
00:19:11,565 --> 00:19:12,705
their next season.

337
00:19:13,805 --> 00:19:15,884
Checks are gonna basically disappear.

338
00:19:15,884 --> 00:19:16,045
So it's

339
00:19:16,765 --> 00:19:17,565
Now let's

340
00:19:17,644 --> 00:19:19,019
just a lack of care.

341
00:19:19,180 --> 00:19:21,740
Let's put this into perspective for everybody
as well.

342
00:19:21,740 --> 00:19:22,140
Right?

343
00:19:22,140 --> 00:19:28,539
So we're talking about a total tax implication
for these players that total combined together

344
00:19:28,539 --> 00:19:31,440
is around $250,000, give or take.

345
00:19:32,174 --> 00:19:36,494
When we look at what the PGA Tour has been
doing now, they could have done the right

346
00:19:36,494 --> 00:19:36,994
thing.

347
00:19:37,214 --> 00:19:40,974
They could have absolutely gone to each of the
players and been like, Hey, this is what

348
00:19:40,974 --> 00:19:41,454
happened.

349
00:19:41,454 --> 00:19:47,069
So next year, make sure that you're aware that
there's going to be a tax implication because

350
00:19:47,069 --> 00:19:47,950
it's our error.

351
00:19:47,950 --> 00:19:52,029
We're gonna take it on the chin for this one,
and we're gonna make sure that we take care of

352
00:19:52,029 --> 00:19:52,529
you.

353
00:19:52,829 --> 00:19:56,369
And $250,000, like you said, it's a rounding
error.

354
00:19:56,429 --> 00:19:56,929
Error.

355
00:19:57,390 --> 00:19:57,890
Error.

356
00:19:58,109 --> 00:20:00,210
I don't know why I stumbled with that word.

357
00:20:00,269 --> 00:20:04,065
However, that being said, again, I wanna put
this into perspective.

358
00:20:04,924 --> 00:20:11,664
Scottie Scheffler won over $62,000,000 because
of all the Signature Series, the increased

359
00:20:11,724 --> 00:20:15,424
purses that were out there on the PGA Tour this
year.

360
00:20:15,484 --> 00:20:21,710
Jay Monahan, he could have even to him, this is
almost a rounding error for his own personal

361
00:20:21,710 --> 00:20:27,089
salary, but which has been reported, by the
way, in 2022 was over $18,600,000.

362
00:20:29,390 --> 00:20:35,164
So even the players like the PAC could have
come together and been like, hey guys, this is

363
00:20:35,164 --> 00:20:40,465
kind of messed up that this happened to some of
our newer members that received this stipend.

364
00:20:40,684 --> 00:20:45,539
Let's go ahead and pull together and actually
get this done so that we can make sure that

365
00:20:45,539 --> 00:20:49,799
these guys are taken care of, but none of that
happened.

366
00:20:50,259 --> 00:20:55,960
So I just in your opinion, what should what
should they have done?

367
00:20:56,835 --> 00:20:57,815
Go ahead, Brent.

368
00:20:58,194 --> 00:21:04,194
Well, you know, I don't wanna, you know, I
don't wanna make this a boohoo session and and

369
00:21:04,194 --> 00:21:06,835
the tour is so terrible session or anything
like that.

370
00:21:06,835 --> 00:21:12,329
But I think to add a little bit of a little bit
of, to what you guys are saying, you know,

371
00:21:13,049 --> 00:21:14,329
we've talked to many people.

372
00:21:14,329 --> 00:21:19,210
Ryan has obviously talked to to, you know,
dozens and dozens of people about this from the

373
00:21:19,210 --> 00:21:22,809
tour, tour players, people in and around the
tour.

374
00:21:24,250 --> 00:21:34,644
This was not common knowledge, and the reason
why I know that is I emailed multiple people,

375
00:21:34,704 --> 00:21:42,039
texted multiple people, called multiple people,
and these are all people that deal with the PAC

376
00:21:42,039 --> 00:21:46,299
and or at the corporate level and even on the
player relations level.

377
00:21:46,519 --> 00:21:50,600
None of them knew that this situation had
happened.

378
00:21:50,920 --> 00:21:57,095
The last thing that any of them had even
thought about was they knew they had to make

379
00:21:57,095 --> 00:21:58,694
some phone calls to us saying, hey.

380
00:21:58,694 --> 00:21:59,994
You know, we messed up.

381
00:22:00,295 --> 00:22:03,335
And then that was the last anybody had thought
about it.

382
00:22:03,335 --> 00:22:09,115
And I spoke to, I spoke to a rather
high-ranking member in the corporate structure,

383
00:22:09,700 --> 00:22:12,840
who has since basically blown me off.

384
00:22:13,380 --> 00:22:14,660
And his words were what did

385
00:22:14,660 --> 00:22:15,320
you say?

386
00:22:15,860 --> 00:22:16,660
You heard me.

387
00:22:16,660 --> 00:22:17,960
Blew me off.

388
00:22:19,059 --> 00:22:19,559
Yeah.

389
00:22:20,340 --> 00:22:21,585
And not the good kind.

390
00:22:22,944 --> 00:22:26,865
So he essentially kinda shrugged me off and was
like, hey.

391
00:22:26,865 --> 00:22:30,544
You know, I'm just trying to understand this
situation even though I haven't thought about

392
00:22:30,544 --> 00:22:32,884
it since January of 2023.

393
00:22:33,265 --> 00:22:38,250
So it wasn't on their priority list then, and
it's not on their priority list now.

394
00:22:38,250 --> 00:22:44,809
So, with that said, you know, the amount of
money that's thrown around is obviously, like

395
00:22:44,809 --> 00:22:46,250
we said, a drop in the bucket.

396
00:22:46,250 --> 00:22:54,765
But, essentially, you know, I personally had
half of my, half of my wages, garnished, taken,

397
00:22:55,404 --> 00:22:57,964
whatever word you wanna use, throughout the
year.

398
00:22:57,964 --> 00:23:03,480
I think I made about $100,000 total, and I
think I got about $45,000 of that.

399
00:23:04,599 --> 00:23:10,359
This was not something that they even
considered to change.

400
00:23:10,359 --> 00:23:15,319
They didn't really say, well, you know, given
some more thought, you know, we really messed

401
00:23:15,319 --> 00:23:16,919
up, and we're gonna take this away.

402
00:23:16,919 --> 00:23:23,924
So I think that what I personally want people
to understand is that, one, they knew about it

403
00:23:23,924 --> 00:23:28,265
long before they told us at Christmas, and they
did nothing about it.

404
00:23:28,884 --> 00:23:34,105
They told specific players that made over
$500,000 and then didn't tell anybody else.

405
00:23:34,900 --> 00:23:39,940
When they knew they made a mistake, they called
us, said, oops, sorry, washed their hands of

406
00:23:39,940 --> 00:23:42,339
it, and then sent us on our way.

407
00:23:42,339 --> 00:23:46,980
And the third and final thing, and the third
and final thing is probably the most important

408
00:23:46,980 --> 00:23:54,535
part, is that even when we have reached out to
try to get some sort of solution or remedy to a

409
00:23:54,535 --> 00:24:01,434
pretty significant financial burden, and in
some cases, like for me, you know, I'm out $50.

410
00:24:02,775 --> 00:24:06,930
You know, this is something that they just
don't care about.

411
00:24:07,309 --> 00:24:11,170
And I'm not gonna sit here and say the tour as
a whole is terrible.

412
00:24:11,309 --> 00:24:12,190
I don't think that.

413
00:24:12,190 --> 00:24:17,630
I don't think any of the players are
necessarily horrible people or some evil guy in

414
00:24:17,630 --> 00:24:21,255
the backroom saying, well, I'm really glad I
stuck it to those rookies.

415
00:24:21,255 --> 00:24:23,275
I don't think that's what's happening at all.

416
00:24:23,335 --> 00:24:29,734
I think what's happening is the tour has made
another mistake, and their only job is to take

417
00:24:29,734 --> 00:24:33,650
care of the players that pay the bills.

418
00:24:33,710 --> 00:24:40,190
And as we've seen with multiple changes
recently, those players don't have any issues

419
00:24:40,190 --> 00:24:40,669
like that.

420
00:24:40,669 --> 00:24:46,955
So why would they care about any of us,
specifically people that have kids or family or

421
00:24:47,115 --> 00:24:50,815
whatever, or struggled for a couple of years
like myself.

422
00:24:51,755 --> 00:25:00,869
You know, so there is no, there is no piece of
this where caring equals action.

423
00:25:01,569 --> 00:25:08,210
Brent, I do wanna ask you though, because you
did bring up a point around the timing of this

424
00:25:08,210 --> 00:25:12,609
all and everything, and I wanna go to the
mental impact that this potentially had on you.

425
00:25:12,609 --> 00:25:19,095
Like, being stressed out heading into a season
after playing on the PGA Tour and going back to

426
00:25:19,095 --> 00:25:22,775
the Korn Ferry Tour, all of a sudden, you have
this on your mind.

427
00:25:22,775 --> 00:25:25,890
Did it weigh on you at all throughout the year?

428
00:25:26,609 --> 00:25:27,109
Yeah.

429
00:25:27,170 --> 00:25:30,789
And, again, you know, I'm not a "woe is me"
type of guy.

430
00:25:31,250 --> 00:25:33,750
You know, I don't believe in excuses.

431
00:25:33,890 --> 00:25:40,035
I don't think that this was so terrible that,
you know, I couldn't overcome it.

432
00:25:40,894 --> 00:25:46,494
But, you know, on top of a few other things
like life, and some other things that went on

433
00:25:46,735 --> 00:25:52,230
personally, it got to a point where, you know,
like, towards the latter half of the year,

434
00:25:53,109 --> 00:26:01,029
where it was kind of, you know, it's kind of
win or bust, you know, and every single event

435
00:26:01,029 --> 00:26:04,490
costs about $5,000 to $10,000 if you include a
caddie.

436
00:26:04,684 --> 00:26:10,044
And so if you can imagine, you gotta place
inside the top 15 to, quote-unquote, make

437
00:26:10,044 --> 00:26:10,544
money.

438
00:26:11,325 --> 00:26:16,684
You know, that's something that puts a
hyper-focus on a result in a game where you

439
00:26:16,684 --> 00:26:17,964
can't focus on result.

440
00:26:17,964 --> 00:26:23,929
And I did everything I could, and, you know,
it's not the only reason why I didn't play

441
00:26:23,929 --> 00:26:30,349
well, but I can definitely say that it
certainly had some pressure, certainly when

442
00:26:30,409 --> 00:26:35,325
asking for help from the people that say, you
know, if you need anything, call me.

443
00:26:35,325 --> 00:26:37,345
You know, that's at the bottom of every email.

444
00:26:38,365 --> 00:26:42,044
And those people just kinda said, fuck off.

445
00:26:42,044 --> 00:26:42,444
Oh, you

446
00:26:42,444 --> 00:26:43,244
also Yeah.

447
00:26:43,244 --> 00:26:43,744
Exactly.

448
00:26:44,125 --> 00:26:44,460
Yeah.

449
00:26:44,859 --> 00:26:48,880
So Ryan, you spoke with multiple players that
were going through this similar situation.

450
00:26:49,339 --> 00:26:54,299
What was the sentiment that they had as you
were speaking with them about this entire

451
00:26:54,299 --> 00:26:54,779
thing?

452
00:26:54,779 --> 00:26:56,140
Were they angry, upset?

453
00:26:56,140 --> 00:26:59,855
Do you think, like, based off of the
conversations you had, that it affected their

454
00:26:59,855 --> 00:27:00,994
performance as well?

455
00:27:02,015 --> 00:27:04,494
I think, I mean, there was a wide range.

456
00:27:04,494 --> 00:27:04,815
You know?

457
00:27:04,815 --> 00:27:11,609
I think the biggest thing is for even for the
people who are like, you know, it is what it

458
00:27:11,609 --> 00:27:15,850
is, that they're kinda used to stuff like this
from the PGA Tour.

459
00:27:15,850 --> 00:27:18,809
So, you know, resigned to it.

460
00:27:18,809 --> 00:27:22,990
Some are like, I just wanted to get it over
with, and a lot were frustrated.

461
00:27:25,434 --> 00:27:33,195
You know, I think, I think players in the back
half of the PGA Tour, I think the changes that

462
00:27:33,195 --> 00:27:40,440
we've seen drive that home just don't have much
of a voice, and the PGA Tour knows that.

463
00:27:41,860 --> 00:27:48,360
And so they wouldn't have called, they wouldn't
have called Scottie and collected $67,000.

464
00:27:49,220 --> 00:27:49,960
I know that.

465
00:27:50,980 --> 00:27:52,180
They definitely wouldn't have.

466
00:27:52,180 --> 00:27:59,005
And again, I'll say to kinda, you know, my
final point on it is a lot of people have said,

467
00:27:59,005 --> 00:28:00,065
oh, it's on the players.

468
00:28:00,605 --> 00:28:05,744
So the next year, the PGA Tour gave players
$400,000 and kept $100,000 back.

469
00:28:05,884 --> 00:28:12,430
If it was on the players, I promise you, I
promise you the PGA Tour would not be involved.

470
00:28:12,570 --> 00:28:13,070
Correct.

471
00:28:13,529 --> 00:28:19,529
They don't want anything to do with players
that they don't have to be involved with.

472
00:28:19,529 --> 00:28:20,029
Right?

473
00:28:20,490 --> 00:28:25,705
That was their admittance that they had screwed
up the first year.

474
00:28:25,705 --> 00:28:31,545
They'll never say that, but that's their like
and, again, if it was on the players, I

475
00:28:31,545 --> 00:28:35,144
wouldn't expect the PGA Tour to hold $100,000
back.

476
00:28:35,144 --> 00:28:38,390
They wouldn't, but, also, they're not a tax
business.

477
00:28:38,529 --> 00:28:43,349
So they don't they don't need to be involved in
players' taxes.

478
00:28:43,569 --> 00:28:44,069
Right?

479
00:28:44,210 --> 00:28:47,589
So if it was solely on the players, why?

480
00:28:48,445 --> 00:28:51,325
You know, that's the question I would love to
have answered from the tour.

481
00:28:51,325 --> 00:28:54,705
The tour generally doesn't talk, sent me a
statement.

482
00:28:55,164 --> 00:28:57,404
You know, that's the one question I wanna
answer.

483
00:28:57,404 --> 00:29:03,330
If this wasn't your fault, why are you holding
back $100,000 in this season?

484
00:29:03,549 --> 00:29:09,730
And the answer is because no one's really sure
how to handle this, and so they're protecting

485
00:29:09,789 --> 00:29:10,190
themselves.

486
00:29:10,190 --> 00:29:13,150
They aren't holding the $100,000 back to
protect players.

487
00:29:13,150 --> 00:29:14,289
I promise you that.

488
00:29:15,325 --> 00:29:17,904
And so and they shouldn't be involved in
players.

489
00:29:18,205 --> 00:29:21,345
So it's pretty obvious by that that it's not on
the players.

490
00:29:23,085 --> 00:29:32,220
But, again, lack of communication, kind of
standard operating procedure for the PGA Tour.

491
00:29:32,220 --> 00:29:39,019
Again, this is all handled with a simple email
in January of 2023 when you assume figured out

492
00:29:39,019 --> 00:29:41,615
this was a problem and said, hey.

493
00:29:41,615 --> 00:29:43,075
Make sure you're aware of this.

494
00:29:43,134 --> 00:29:43,794
That's it.

495
00:29:44,095 --> 00:29:46,115
It's a three-line, three-line email.

496
00:30:28,555 --> 00:30:29,055
Hey.

497
00:30:29,195 --> 00:30:37,355
Here's a funny little piece of knowledge, I
guess, and I'm sure you both know this, but a

498
00:30:37,355 --> 00:30:44,369
man named Taylor Montgomery came out of the
Korn Ferry Tour season in 2022 and absolutely

499
00:30:44,509 --> 00:30:46,130
just lit the world on fire.

500
00:30:46,670 --> 00:30:48,930
He played really, really well in the fall
season.

501
00:30:49,549 --> 00:30:55,154
Notably, I think he placed 4th or 5th in Napa,
California.

502
00:30:55,535 --> 00:30:56,015
Right?

503
00:30:56,015 --> 00:31:00,035
So there's a huge tax deal going on there.

504
00:31:00,575 --> 00:31:05,615
So they knew pretty early, and I can guarantee
you they called Taylor and said, oh, hey.

505
00:31:05,615 --> 00:31:10,819
By the way, Taylor, you made, you know,
$450,000 over the last two, three weeks.

506
00:31:11,039 --> 00:31:16,319
We had to take a chunk of that and throw that
on top of the $500 because we forgot to pay

507
00:31:16,319 --> 00:31:16,819
taxes.

508
00:31:16,960 --> 00:31:17,279
Oops.

509
00:31:17,279 --> 00:31:17,779
Sorry.

510
00:31:18,319 --> 00:31:23,044
But don't tell anybody about this, you know,
because we don't want this to get out.

511
00:31:23,044 --> 00:31:30,085
And I just I think that's where a little bit
of, like, the issue and the emotional side of

512
00:31:30,085 --> 00:31:31,544
this comes out for me.

513
00:31:32,005 --> 00:31:33,065
You know, I understand.

514
00:31:33,365 --> 00:31:34,565
I played like shit.

515
00:31:34,565 --> 00:31:35,190
I get it.

516
00:31:35,269 --> 00:31:38,149
If I had played well, probably wouldn't be
sitting here.

517
00:31:38,149 --> 00:31:42,089
Although, I can guarantee you I would be
sitting here from a position of saying, hey.

518
00:31:42,309 --> 00:31:45,990
I'm still on the tour, and I'm gonna make sure
this never happens again, and whomever I gotta

519
00:31:45,990 --> 00:31:48,329
hold accountable is who I'm gonna hold
accountable.

520
00:31:48,525 --> 00:31:52,340
However, because I'm not in that position,
obviously, I can point a bunch of fingers.

521
00:31:52,340 --> 00:31:56,384
But, I think that's where, for me, this becomes
kind of an emotional issue because they knew,

522
00:32:01,420 --> 00:32:07,099
they didn't tell anybody, and they kept it from
all from 10 players over a quarter million

523
00:32:07,099 --> 00:32:09,820
dollars, which is, again, you know, nothing.

524
00:32:09,820 --> 00:32:14,079
There are 40-plus people that make over a
million dollars at the PGA Tour.

525
00:32:14,299 --> 00:32:17,234
One of them makes almost $20 million a year.

526
00:32:17,875 --> 00:32:23,954
You know, that's a flight or two on the private
jet that Jay flies on every week.

527
00:32:23,954 --> 00:32:32,690
So, you know, again, the rest of that is
speculation, but it just seems like they just

528
00:32:32,690 --> 00:32:33,650
don't give a shit.

529
00:32:33,650 --> 00:32:42,930
And I can't understand why any sponsor or any
corporate entity that's even thinking about

530
00:32:42,930 --> 00:32:45,990
getting into bed with somebody that does that
to their people.

531
00:32:47,504 --> 00:32:52,784
I just can't imagine why they would do it, and
it doesn't surprise me that the PGA Tour is at

532
00:32:52,784 --> 00:32:58,144
risk of losing a lot of things, especially with
the federal government, but we could talk about

533
00:32:58,144 --> 00:32:59,160
that some other time.

534
00:32:59,320 --> 00:33:04,920
Well, I'm gonna piggyback off of your statement
there, Brent, and just say that it was such an

535
00:33:04,920 --> 00:33:07,259
easy fix, in my opinion.

536
00:33:07,480 --> 00:33:07,980
Yep.

537
00:33:08,119 --> 00:33:10,539
Just go and pay.

538
00:33:11,559 --> 00:33:12,700
You screwed up.

539
00:33:13,105 --> 00:33:20,784
You try to do something that is necessary in
terms of providing some income so that guys are

540
00:33:20,784 --> 00:33:25,105
in major debt at the beginning of the year,
even the middle of the year, potentially at the

541
00:33:25,105 --> 00:33:27,605
end of the year, depending on how well they
performed.

542
00:33:28,269 --> 00:33:34,529
And it backfired because they didn't take into
account the tax implications from that.

543
00:33:34,589 --> 00:33:36,269
And then to put that onto the players.

544
00:33:36,269 --> 00:33:41,569
And like you said, Ryan, I fully agree with
your sentiment around it that, you know what?

545
00:33:42,154 --> 00:33:47,615
There's proof that they screwed up because
they're now changing the policy.

546
00:33:47,674 --> 00:33:48,075
Yeah.

547
00:33:48,075 --> 00:33:49,194
When you make a change

548
00:33:49,194 --> 00:33:52,315
like that, that's pretty much proof in the
pudding.

549
00:33:52,315 --> 00:33:54,075
They don't need to say anything at that point.

550
00:33:54,075 --> 00:33:56,154
It's like, okay, we screwed up.

551
00:33:56,154 --> 00:33:57,710
Now we're going to win the whole $100,000.

552
00:33:57,710 --> 00:34:01,710
So that whatever the tax implication is at the
end of the year, you'll get the difference.

553
00:34:01,710 --> 00:34:06,190
And that was the other piece that I read in
your article, Ryan, that I found interesting is

554
00:34:06,190 --> 00:34:11,684
that they're going to hold onto $100,000 and
then however much the taxes are, they're going

555
00:34:11,684 --> 00:34:15,625
to pay back the difference within that $100,000
that they're keeping.

556
00:34:16,085 --> 00:34:20,644
I think it's an important part here to add that
none of this has been in writing.

557
00:34:20,644 --> 00:34:21,125
Right?

558
00:34:21,125 --> 00:34:21,445
No.

559
00:34:21,445 --> 00:34:27,869
Brent asked a PGA Tour official how much he
owed left and then got a text message back.

560
00:34:27,869 --> 00:34:31,550
But there's never been amongst any players
that's just like, hey.

561
00:34:31,550 --> 00:34:33,150
Here's what you earned in each state.

562
00:34:33,150 --> 00:34:35,010
Here was your tax burden.

563
00:34:35,150 --> 00:34:36,929
Here's what we paid on your behalf.

564
00:34:37,114 --> 00:34:41,275
Here's like any other company would do if
you're like, hey.

565
00:34:41,275 --> 00:34:43,194
I got my, you know, check garnished.

566
00:34:43,194 --> 00:34:44,174
What's the situation?

567
00:34:44,234 --> 00:34:44,714
Okay.

568
00:34:44,714 --> 00:34:46,234
Here's why we garnish it.

569
00:34:46,234 --> 00:34:47,514
Here's the printout.

570
00:34:47,514 --> 00:34:47,994
Right?

571
00:34:47,994 --> 00:34:52,110
Well, even not even from just a company
standpoint.

572
00:34:52,250 --> 00:34:54,010
What about other sports leagues?

573
00:34:54,010 --> 00:34:56,170
Like, you look at all these other major sports
leagues.

574
00:34:56,170 --> 00:34:56,650
Right.

575
00:34:56,650 --> 00:34:58,650
Nobody would be able to get away with this.

576
00:34:58,650 --> 00:34:59,449
And 100%.

577
00:34:59,530 --> 00:35:04,250
You know, could you imagine the NFL just Roger
Goodell sending a text message to a football

578
00:35:04,250 --> 00:35:07,534
player going, hey, by the way, I think you owe
this amount still.

579
00:35:07,534 --> 00:35:07,775
Yeah.

580
00:35:07,775 --> 00:35:08,815
We just do that.

581
00:35:08,815 --> 00:35:09,214
Yeah.

582
00:35:09,214 --> 00:35:16,654
What's amazing is the only thing that I got,
and I've been searching through my files the

583
00:35:16,654 --> 00:35:21,210
last few days to get ready for this and just to
make sure, you know, we all have the right

584
00:35:21,210 --> 00:35:21,710
information.

585
00:35:22,090 --> 00:35:30,250
The only thing I got was kind of a sparse
breakdown of a bunch of numbers that were, you

586
00:35:30,250 --> 00:35:35,050
know, basically saying, well, this is how much
you made in prize money, and this is how much

587
00:35:35,050 --> 00:35:39,775
we paid out on your behalf to the insurance
company.

588
00:35:39,835 --> 00:35:45,914
But there was no breakdown with regards to the
specific tax states.

589
00:35:45,914 --> 00:35:53,140
The only number that I got was that I owed
$48,000 and change, $18,000 and change in

590
00:35:53,699 --> 00:35:56,519
health benefits, health premiums is what
they're called.

591
00:35:57,219 --> 00:35:59,000
And, basically, I owe $67,000.

592
00:35:59,539 --> 00:36:05,355
Now they did take out $18,000 and change from
those health benefits, thanks to Kyle

593
00:36:05,355 --> 00:36:07,695
Westmoreland getting a hold of them and saying,
hey.

594
00:36:07,835 --> 00:36:12,715
You should probably change this and so on and
so forth, and I'm glad that he did that.

595
00:36:12,715 --> 00:36:16,574
But what's amazing is that they can eat that.

596
00:36:16,635 --> 00:36:16,954
Right?

597
00:36:16,954 --> 00:36:21,690
They can eat the, you know, basically, you
know, $180 or whatever it ended up being.

598
00:36:21,690 --> 00:36:26,030
Let's say that it was $10 from 10 players, so
it was $100 for the sake of the argument.

599
00:36:26,489 --> 00:36:30,050
They ate that, you know, whatever, but that was
already paid out.

600
00:36:30,050 --> 00:36:32,110
So they say, ah, you know, we don't need that
back.

601
00:36:32,250 --> 00:36:38,875
But then, you know, just a little bit more from
each player, and they're saying, well, yeah.

602
00:36:38,875 --> 00:36:39,275
Sorry.

603
00:36:39,275 --> 00:36:41,355
We can't, we can't do that.

604
00:36:41,355 --> 00:36:47,675
And I think what I would be interested in, and
I've already talked to a couple of different

605
00:36:47,675 --> 00:36:50,739
people about this, but we know the ethics side
of this.

606
00:36:50,739 --> 00:36:50,980
Right?

607
00:36:50,980 --> 00:36:56,599
We understand that ethically, this is beyond
any business practice.

608
00:36:56,659 --> 00:36:56,980
Right?

609
00:36:56,980 --> 00:36:57,799
This is horrible.

610
00:36:58,179 --> 00:37:07,974
But I would be curious to understand whether or
not there was even legal precedent, for like,

611
00:37:07,974 --> 00:37:10,614
if a CPA were sitting right here and be like,
okay.

612
00:37:10,614 --> 00:37:17,974
So if you're this, you know, if you're this
expert, explain to me how it's okay for them to

613
00:37:17,974 --> 00:37:24,599
just say, well, we're gonna pay you this money,
and then you're gonna owe this money, and we're

614
00:37:24,599 --> 00:37:26,440
gonna take it from you, period.

615
00:37:26,440 --> 00:37:27,160
End of story.

616
00:37:27,160 --> 00:37:29,239
The wage garnishments get into our

617
00:37:29,239 --> 00:37:29,820
state because,

618
00:37:31,239 --> 00:37:37,234
you know, they can pay you out that amount and,
essentially, they don't have to necessarily

619
00:37:37,454 --> 00:37:38,914
care about tax implications.

620
00:37:39,375 --> 00:37:45,694
However, the wage garnishment part of this is
where it gets a little bit dicey within a legal

621
00:37:45,694 --> 00:37:47,855
standpoint because it's like, okay.

622
00:37:47,855 --> 00:37:53,420
Now you're knowingly and you did not
communicate the fact that they were going to

623
00:37:53,420 --> 00:37:54,480
have tax implications.

624
00:37:54,539 --> 00:37:55,900
So it gets tricky.

625
00:37:55,900 --> 00:38:00,139
I'm sure just like with the accounts that you
dealt with, Ryan, and spoke with, that you got

626
00:38:00,139 --> 00:38:03,835
nine different answers from them, from nine
different CPAs.

627
00:38:04,214 --> 00:38:09,335
I'm sure there's probably nine different
attorneys that are like, this could go in

628
00:38:09,335 --> 00:38:10,714
several different directions.

629
00:38:11,494 --> 00:38:17,699
But I do want to now kind of shift gears
because, as I was building this out and what

630
00:38:17,699 --> 00:38:24,440
happened yesterday with the announcement from
the PAC of proposed changes to the 2026 PGA

631
00:38:24,500 --> 00:38:30,440
Tour season, you know, this hits home for you,
Ryan, and it hits home for Brent.

632
00:38:30,885 --> 00:38:36,005
And I'm just like, instead of just making this
about the tax liability and paying out, this is

633
00:38:36,005 --> 00:38:40,085
kind of the carryover to how the tour is being
handled right now.

634
00:38:40,085 --> 00:38:44,300
And this actually comes from the Player
Advisory Council side of things.

635
00:38:44,300 --> 00:38:49,019
And that's where I'm like, man, if they knew
about the tax implications, why didn't they get

636
00:38:49,019 --> 00:38:57,579
together and just make an agreement or some
type of amendment to that to take care of these

637
00:38:57,579 --> 00:38:59,545
guys in that sense?

638
00:38:59,545 --> 00:39:05,144
But with these proposed changes, it gets even a
little bit darker in terms of what's going on

639
00:39:05,144 --> 00:39:07,324
right now with the PGA Tour.

640
00:39:07,465 --> 00:39:08,265
Why do you believe?

641
00:39:08,265 --> 00:39:09,545
And I'm going to start with you, Ryan.

642
00:39:09,545 --> 00:39:10,344
Why do you believe?

643
00:39:10,344 --> 00:39:16,320
Because Brent talked about this last night on
the live episode quite a bit, but why do you

644
00:39:16,320 --> 00:39:20,820
believe the tour is trying to shrink in size
because they blame daylight?

645
00:39:21,760 --> 00:39:22,160
Yeah.

646
00:39:22,160 --> 00:39:26,965
I mean, again, I'm not gonna speak for all
players.

647
00:39:26,965 --> 00:39:35,844
Brent can obviously speak for himself, but, you
know, I use Harold Varner's quote when he left

648
00:39:35,844 --> 00:39:36,324
for LIV.

649
00:39:36,324 --> 00:39:36,644
Right?

650
00:39:36,644 --> 00:39:39,590
Everybody was like, we want to play less and
all this stuff.

651
00:39:39,590 --> 00:39:41,190
And Harold's like, hey, man.

652
00:39:41,190 --> 00:39:47,750
It's life-changing money, and thank you for the
PGA Tour, and I'm gonna change my family's, you

653
00:39:47,750 --> 00:39:50,070
know, trajectory for generations to come.

654
00:39:50,070 --> 00:39:53,804
And no one really has ever said a word about
Harold leaving because he's just, like,

655
00:39:53,885 --> 00:39:54,385
truthful.

656
00:39:54,844 --> 00:40:02,125
And so, you know, top players on the PGA Tour
are watching former playing partners get paid

657
00:40:02,125 --> 00:40:07,565
hundreds of millions of dollars, and they now
have the power to change the face of the PGA

658
00:40:07,565 --> 00:40:08,065
Tour.

659
00:40:08,690 --> 00:40:09,809
And that's what they're doing.

660
00:40:09,809 --> 00:40:14,690
You can say it's to cut fat.

661
00:40:14,690 --> 00:40:23,335
You can even argue that some of these changes,
you know, past champions or, what, making a

662
00:40:23,335 --> 00:40:24,474
little smaller fields.

663
00:40:24,934 --> 00:40:25,434
Great.

664
00:40:25,454 --> 00:40:27,675
I'm let's say you're for that.

665
00:40:27,974 --> 00:40:32,394
This is not helping the PGA Tour product at
all.

666
00:40:32,695 --> 00:40:34,555
It's not helping sell to sponsors.

667
00:40:34,775 --> 00:40:37,355
It's not making TV product better.

668
00:40:37,460 --> 00:40:39,639
It's not making the LIV product better.

669
00:40:39,940 --> 00:40:45,539
Even if you agree with all of those changes,
there's no argument that those three things are

670
00:40:45,859 --> 00:40:46,519
the truth.

671
00:40:47,539 --> 00:40:51,639
What it does is protect our players and get
them more money.

672
00:40:52,019 --> 00:40:58,085
And so that's, in my opinion, what a lot of
these changes are about.

673
00:40:58,385 --> 00:41:05,125
There's guys in that room that have control
now, and they have a lot of money now.

674
00:41:06,784 --> 00:41:14,166
And, you know, Joseph from The Fried Egg
brought up a great point or Andy from The Fried

675
00:41:14,166 --> 00:41:15,760
Egg brought up a good point today.

676
00:41:15,900 --> 00:41:21,974
It's like in every other sport, you have an
owner sitting across the field who's, like,

677
00:41:22,215 --> 00:41:23,575
concerned about the product.

678
00:41:23,575 --> 00:41:23,894
Right?

679
00:41:23,894 --> 00:41:28,555
And the players have to worry about the
players, and that's what makes it good.

680
00:41:28,775 --> 00:41:35,349
You have people on opposite ends, and they're
all fighting to make it, but they also have

681
00:41:35,349 --> 00:41:36,329
different viewpoints.

682
00:41:37,030 --> 00:41:43,269
You have now players who are looking out for
themselves, understandably, but there's no one

683
00:41:43,269 --> 00:41:45,050
to push back anymore.

684
00:41:45,349 --> 00:41:45,829
Right?

685
00:41:45,829 --> 00:41:47,545
There's no owner to go like, hey, man.

686
00:41:47,545 --> 00:41:48,824
What about the TV deal?

687
00:41:48,824 --> 00:41:49,545
Or, hey, man.

688
00:41:49,545 --> 00:41:51,324
What about sponsors?

689
00:41:51,545 --> 00:41:52,025
Right?

690
00:41:52,025 --> 00:41:53,784
That's what owners do in sports.

691
00:41:53,784 --> 00:41:56,045
They're like, I can't make money with that.

692
00:41:56,505 --> 00:42:00,045
I can't make the TV product better with the
changes you're proposing.

693
00:42:00,440 --> 00:42:05,480
That's why players, owners, or players' unions
and owners go back and forth, and there's a

694
00:42:05,480 --> 00:42:05,980
compromise.

695
00:42:06,840 --> 00:42:11,320
That isn't the case in the PGA Tour.

696
00:42:11,320 --> 00:42:17,025
Top players are now the owners and the players,
and they're looking out for themselves.

697
00:42:17,164 --> 00:42:25,965
And so I, again, this is if we're continuing
down this road, this is one step of LIV 2.0.

698
00:42:25,965 --> 00:42:26,465
Mhmm.

699
00:42:26,605 --> 00:42:29,505
The signature events will be their own tour.

700
00:42:30,219 --> 00:42:34,800
The PGA Tour events that are left behind, no
way they're surviving.

701
00:42:35,340 --> 00:42:37,440
They're gonna be joined with the Korn Ferry
Tour.

702
00:42:37,900 --> 00:42:43,500
You're gonna make some sort of $3 million
purse, $4 million purse, 2025 event Korn Ferry,

703
00:42:43,500 --> 00:42:47,844
and then there's gonna be 15 to 20 signature
events.

704
00:42:47,844 --> 00:42:53,704
And that's gonna be what we do because, again,
that's

705
00:42:54,244 --> 00:42:55,385
That's what they want.

706
00:42:55,684 --> 00:42:55,925
Yeah.

707
00:42:55,925 --> 00:42:56,880
That's what they want.

708
00:42:57,039 --> 00:42:58,079
And they're in control.

709
00:42:58,079 --> 00:42:58,480
Right?

710
00:42:58,480 --> 00:43:03,279
I mean, ever since they've gained power, it's
like yep.

711
00:43:03,279 --> 00:43:05,619
They can very literally do that tomorrow.

712
00:43:06,079 --> 00:43:08,179
They are smart.

713
00:43:08,719 --> 00:43:12,734
At least in this sense, they're smart enough to
not just be like, oh, we can't just go directly

714
00:43:12,734 --> 00:43:13,474
to 70.

715
00:43:13,934 --> 00:43:14,434
Right?

716
00:43:15,454 --> 00:43:23,234
And so, yeah, they have the power, and it's an
inherently selfish sport in general.

717
00:43:23,534 --> 00:43:26,890
And so, and I don't mean that in a bad way.

718
00:43:26,890 --> 00:43:28,489
It's just you're always by yourself.

719
00:43:28,489 --> 00:43:28,809
Right?

720
00:43:28,809 --> 00:43:30,910
Like, it's you're you make your own decisions.

721
00:43:30,969 --> 00:43:33,070
You suffer the consequences.

722
00:43:33,289 --> 00:43:34,429
You get the rewards.

723
00:43:35,369 --> 00:43:43,655
And so you're asking people who play an
inherently selfish sport to be unselfish, and

724
00:43:43,715 --> 00:43:44,375
they aren't.

725
00:43:44,755 --> 00:43:52,275
I had one PGA Tour member use this analogy, and
what they're most frustrated with is, a, the

726
00:43:52,275 --> 00:43:59,030
lack of, you know, transparency and truth, and
2 is, you know, pulling up the ladder behind

727
00:43:59,030 --> 00:43:59,349
them.

728
00:43:59,349 --> 00:43:59,750
Right?

729
00:43:59,750 --> 00:44:03,690
It's like, Billy Horschel's been at Q-School
four times.

730
00:44:03,989 --> 00:44:08,010
Billy Horschel has kept his card, and I have no
problem with this.

731
00:44:09,184 --> 00:44:13,844
Three ways, medical are basically getting
shuffled out.

732
00:44:13,985 --> 00:44:19,744
He finished 140th in points, not gonna be a
part.

733
00:44:19,744 --> 00:44:23,130
And he finished 27th at Q-School and got his
PGA Tour card.

734
00:44:23,210 --> 00:44:25,630
All three of those ways are now gone in 2026.

735
00:44:26,170 --> 00:44:26,670
Right?

736
00:44:26,969 --> 00:44:31,230
And so that is the epitome of pulling up the
ladder behind you.

737
00:44:31,369 --> 00:44:31,869
Yep.

738
00:44:32,809 --> 00:44:33,529
It's brutal.

739
00:44:33,529 --> 00:44:34,670
And here's the thing.

740
00:44:34,730 --> 00:44:40,005
Golf is already the smallest sport in terms of
the number of players to begin with.

741
00:44:40,065 --> 00:44:41,264
And I listed out.

742
00:44:41,264 --> 00:44:45,844
I actually did some research because I was
thinking about it last night as we were talking

743
00:44:46,065 --> 00:44:46,945
about this topic.

744
00:44:46,945 --> 00:44:52,945
And I'm like, man, like, it just seems crazy
because how can you not be able to have a tour

745
00:44:52,945 --> 00:44:54,724
with 125 guys?

746
00:44:55,289 --> 00:44:57,210
And then all of a sudden I started looking.

747
00:44:57,210 --> 00:45:01,070
The NFL has close to 1,700 players across the
league.

748
00:45:01,130 --> 00:45:08,570
You've got the NBA with between 450 to 510,
depending on the time of year and so forth.

749
00:45:08,570 --> 00:45:09,949
MLB got 780.

750
00:45:11,184 --> 00:45:12,484
NHL, you got 736.

751
00:45:13,744 --> 00:45:15,045
MLS is 870.

752
00:45:15,824 --> 00:45:17,684
Premier League is over 500.

753
00:45:18,545 --> 00:45:21,284
And these are not even considering the minor
leagues.

754
00:45:21,344 --> 00:45:26,869
So when you think of DP World Tour or the Korn
Ferry Tour, like there's no argument there as

755
00:45:26,869 --> 00:45:33,349
to why you cannot have a PGA Tour be successful
and have an even better product than it is

756
00:45:33,349 --> 00:45:35,590
today with 125 guys.

757
00:45:35,590 --> 00:45:38,250
And all those leagues, by the way, are
expanded.

758
00:45:38,724 --> 00:45:38,964
Right?

759
00:45:38,964 --> 00:45:42,505
They've added more players throughout the
years, not less.

760
00:45:42,964 --> 00:45:48,405
Like, this entire constriction of I don't even
think constriction is a word, is it?

761
00:45:48,724 --> 00:45:56,030
But the shrinking of the PGA Tour and the
number of players that are going to be

762
00:45:56,590 --> 00:46:03,410
cardholders is just it goes against everything
that sports is and what you want a professional

763
00:46:03,470 --> 00:46:04,030
sport to be.

764
00:46:04,030 --> 00:46:05,390
You don't want it to shrink.

765
00:46:05,390 --> 00:46:06,690
You want it to get bigger.

766
00:46:07,425 --> 00:46:09,985
This is something I literally just thought of.

767
00:46:09,985 --> 00:46:11,765
It's like, there's a reason.

768
00:46:12,065 --> 00:46:17,105
Once a year, it works somewhat, but there's a
reason everybody hates All-Star Games in every

769
00:46:17,105 --> 00:46:17,425
sport.

770
00:46:17,425 --> 00:46:17,664
Right?

771
00:46:17,664 --> 00:46:18,164
Yeah.

772
00:46:18,305 --> 00:46:22,589
And now we are playing 15 All-Star Games on the
PGA Tour.

773
00:46:22,589 --> 00:46:22,909
Right?

774
00:46:22,909 --> 00:46:24,829
Like, all the top players show up.

775
00:46:24,829 --> 00:46:25,889
There's no cut.

776
00:46:26,029 --> 00:46:27,170
They're all getting paid.

777
00:46:28,109 --> 00:46:30,130
Like, they're all multimillionaires.

778
00:46:30,829 --> 00:46:35,114
Again, Scottie deserves if the number is
60,000,000, Scottie deserves it.

779
00:46:35,114 --> 00:46:35,514
Right?

780
00:46:35,514 --> 00:46:36,014
Absolutely.

781
00:46:36,155 --> 00:46:36,474
This is

782
00:46:36,474 --> 00:46:40,554
not an argument against the top players for
getting paid.

783
00:46:40,554 --> 00:46:41,914
That's not what this is about.

784
00:46:41,914 --> 00:46:43,835
I don't think everybody should get it.

785
00:46:43,994 --> 00:46:47,034
Like, they deserve to.

786
00:46:47,849 --> 00:46:51,789
Scotty deserves—if $62,000,000 is the number,
Scotty deserves every penny of it.

787
00:46:52,410 --> 00:47:00,570
But the issue is, like, tearing down the
product to get yourself paid.

788
00:47:00,570 --> 00:47:01,369
That's not it.

789
00:47:01,369 --> 00:47:01,869
Right?

790
00:47:02,094 --> 00:47:05,074
Again, I expect the owners in the push in the
in the pushback.

791
00:47:05,775 --> 00:47:11,454
You know, I think what's surprising to me, and
maybe you guys can answer this question for me.

792
00:47:11,454 --> 00:47:11,934
I don't know.

793
00:47:11,934 --> 00:47:14,515
I've racked my brain about it the last 48
hours.

794
00:47:14,815 --> 00:47:16,859
But I'm a little confused.

795
00:47:18,199 --> 00:47:21,340
I totally understand if you said, hey.

796
00:47:21,639 --> 00:47:22,380
You know what?

797
00:47:23,480 --> 00:47:25,420
We're gonna take the Monday qualifiers.

798
00:47:26,280 --> 00:47:26,679
Okay?

799
00:47:26,679 --> 00:47:29,980
And I understand this is a sensitive subject,
so I'm gonna tread real lightly.

800
00:47:30,875 --> 00:47:31,355
Okay?

801
00:47:31,355 --> 00:47:32,954
But I played my fair share.

802
00:47:32,954 --> 00:47:33,195
Okay?

803
00:47:33,195 --> 00:47:38,954
There's one specific one that's really close to
my heart that is gonna go away in 2026, and I

804
00:47:38,954 --> 00:47:39,934
think it's a tragedy.

805
00:47:41,034 --> 00:47:43,214
But let's just say they said, hey.

806
00:47:44,570 --> 00:47:50,889
We're gonna make the Monday qualifier fields
smaller, and we're gonna have 1 or 2 fewer

807
00:47:50,889 --> 00:47:54,750
spots depending on how this breaks down because
you know what?

808
00:47:54,809 --> 00:47:57,230
Statistically speaking, they don't make the
cuts.

809
00:47:57,449 --> 00:47:58,349
That's fine.

810
00:47:59,164 --> 00:48:01,644
But to jump ahead and be like, okay.

811
00:48:01,644 --> 00:48:06,605
All you PGA sections that make all the tens of
thousands of dollars a year off of those

812
00:48:06,605 --> 00:48:08,385
qualifiers, that's gone.

813
00:48:08,684 --> 00:48:12,844
And you're only gonna have, you know, a select
few tournaments that even have Monday

814
00:48:12,844 --> 00:48:13,344
qualifiers.

815
00:48:13,769 --> 00:48:14,269
Okay.

816
00:48:14,489 --> 00:48:15,710
That's too far.

817
00:48:15,769 --> 00:48:16,090
Right?

818
00:48:16,090 --> 00:48:18,829
And, oh, by the way, those qualifiers are down
from 4 to 2.

819
00:48:19,130 --> 00:48:28,555
But my question is how is it that we don't
have—because that's essentially what they've

820
00:48:28,555 --> 00:48:36,315
said—is that we don't have enough players that
are, quote, unquote, good enough to have

821
00:48:36,315 --> 00:48:43,099
132-man fields more consistently or 144-man
fields more consistently.

822
00:48:43,159 --> 00:48:45,639
I just, I'm confused as to how the, well, no.

823
00:48:45,639 --> 00:48:46,440
I get that.

824
00:48:46,440 --> 00:48:47,559
I believe you.

825
00:48:47,559 --> 00:48:48,280
I understand.

826
00:48:48,280 --> 00:48:49,239
But that's my point.

827
00:48:49,239 --> 00:48:49,480
Right?

828
00:48:51,085 --> 00:48:58,684
If that's the argument, none of the players
that are making these decisions are, by the

829
00:48:58,684 --> 00:49:04,829
way, anywhere near the pack, for that matter,
are in those latter two or three tee times.

830
00:49:05,070 --> 00:49:07,070
So they're not worrying about that.

831
00:49:07,070 --> 00:49:10,030
And even if they have to practice a little bit
in the dark, so be it.

832
00:49:10,030 --> 00:49:13,170
Most of these guys have done it the majority of
their careers.

833
00:49:13,630 --> 00:49:21,885
But my question is really, like, aside from the
obvious, you know, satirical side of it.

834
00:49:21,885 --> 00:49:32,525
But, really, is it impossible to have a solid
product where there's 132, 144 solid members of

835
00:49:32,525 --> 00:49:38,789
the tour with the Korn Ferry Tour, the DP World
Tour, and then the rest of the PGA Tour?

836
00:49:38,789 --> 00:49:45,750
Is it not possible to film 18 holes of golf for
four or five hours a day and say, hey, you're

837
00:49:45,750 --> 00:49:49,944
gonna see a lot of shots, and you're gonna see
guys trying to make a cut, and that's gonna be

838
00:49:49,944 --> 00:49:52,105
compelling, and you're gonna see some other
things?

839
00:49:52,105 --> 00:49:59,864
But, you know, I'm just confused as to how all
of these changes needed to be made this

840
00:49:59,864 --> 00:50:07,849
abruptly and this drastically, such that,
essentially, we're gonna be looking at 70 to

841
00:50:07,849 --> 00:50:14,349
80% of the same players for the next however
many years, five to six years.

842
00:50:14,570 --> 00:50:15,210
The same.

843
00:50:15,609 --> 00:50:15,769
Yeah.

844
00:50:15,769 --> 00:50:16,010
Go ahead.

845
00:50:16,010 --> 00:50:16,844
Go ahead, Ryan.

846
00:50:17,005 --> 00:50:17,085
No.

847
00:50:17,085 --> 00:50:17,484
No.

848
00:50:17,484 --> 00:50:17,885
No.

849
00:50:17,885 --> 00:50:18,284
You.

850
00:50:18,284 --> 00:50:25,264
I was just gonna say that it 100% is just the
top players looking out for the top players and

851
00:50:25,405 --> 00:50:32,009
limiting the amount of competition that's
there, that they want this to be a closed

852
00:50:32,009 --> 00:50:32,730
tight-knit system.

853
00:50:32,730 --> 00:50:36,969
They don't want some guy coming in on a Monday
qualifier and all of a sudden going and winning

854
00:50:36,969 --> 00:50:42,329
a golf tournament and taking their money or
even making a cut and who's not potentially a

855
00:50:42,329 --> 00:50:43,549
PGA Tour member.

856
00:50:43,849 --> 00:50:46,925
I mean, that's like stealing from them, so to
speak.

857
00:50:46,925 --> 00:50:47,485
If you don't

858
00:50:47,565 --> 00:50:49,485
What about a Nick Dunlap this year?

859
00:50:49,485 --> 00:50:51,425
That guy's story's gone.

860
00:50:51,804 --> 00:50:52,204
Yeah.

861
00:50:52,204 --> 00:50:54,045
I mean, that story would be gone.

862
00:50:54,045 --> 00:50:55,244
You're absolutely right.

863
00:50:55,244 --> 00:51:05,960
Having an amateur come in and actually win a
PGA Tour event over Sam Burns, there's so many

864
00:51:05,960 --> 00:51:07,239
ways to go about this.

865
00:51:07,239 --> 00:51:07,480
Right?

866
00:51:07,480 --> 00:51:13,255
That, and I was saying it last night on the
podcast that it is not about limiting the

867
00:51:13,255 --> 00:51:14,055
number of players.

868
00:51:14,055 --> 00:51:17,894
It's about creating a better product, and
there's better ways of going about creating a

869
00:51:17,894 --> 00:51:18,635
better product.

870
00:51:18,695 --> 00:51:24,315
I and I my question is what I challenged Billy
in the podcast.

871
00:51:24,535 --> 00:51:29,730
How does this, let's say, you agree with all of
these changes.

872
00:51:29,730 --> 00:51:31,569
Tell me how this improves the product.

873
00:51:31,569 --> 00:51:32,069
Right?

874
00:51:32,289 --> 00:51:34,049
And I went through it.

875
00:51:34,049 --> 00:51:37,510
Signature how do you sell this to fans, and how
do you sell it to sponsors?

876
00:51:39,695 --> 00:51:42,094
You sell it to sponsors by saying what?

877
00:51:42,094 --> 00:51:43,695
All the top players are coming?

878
00:51:43,695 --> 00:51:44,735
They're already coming.

879
00:51:44,735 --> 00:51:48,094
They were coming the last two years for the
signature events anyway.

880
00:51:48,094 --> 00:51:48,494
Yep.

881
00:51:48,494 --> 00:51:51,635
Then you go to the John Deere's and you go,
hey, John Deere.

882
00:51:51,775 --> 00:51:53,295
How is their product getting better?

883
00:51:53,295 --> 00:51:53,880
It isn't.

884
00:51:54,359 --> 00:51:54,679
No.

885
00:51:54,679 --> 00:51:55,000
No.

886
00:51:55,000 --> 00:51:59,159
It's not like all of a sudden 10 of the top 15
guys are going to the John Deere.

887
00:51:59,159 --> 00:51:59,319
They aren't.

888
00:51:59,639 --> 00:52:00,119
Yeah.

889
00:52:00,119 --> 00:52:01,480
70% of the tournaments.

890
00:52:01,480 --> 00:52:01,980
Yeah.

891
00:52:02,199 --> 00:52:06,619
Nothing is changing from 25 to 26 except the
number of cards.

892
00:52:06,724 --> 00:52:08,405
The TV product didn't get better.

893
00:52:08,405 --> 00:52:10,184
The live product didn't get better.

894
00:52:12,164 --> 00:52:16,184
The sponsors didn't get any more viewers.

895
00:52:16,324 --> 00:52:18,664
It's like nothing changed.

896
00:52:19,179 --> 00:52:20,460
Nothing is going to change.

897
00:52:20,460 --> 00:52:27,820
The 25 season and the 26 season are going to be
exact mirrors except for fields are gonna be

898
00:52:27,820 --> 00:52:28,320
smaller.

899
00:52:28,460 --> 00:52:28,699
Yeah.

900
00:52:28,699 --> 00:52:29,260
They and

901
00:52:29,260 --> 00:52:30,860
the fans won't even recognize it.

902
00:52:30,860 --> 00:52:33,315
That's that's the crazy thing about it.

903
00:52:33,554 --> 00:52:38,914
99% of people couldn't tell you how many people
are in a PGA Tour event if you gave them a

904
00:52:38,914 --> 00:52:39,974
multiple choice.

905
00:52:40,034 --> 00:52:40,675
That's valid.

906
00:52:40,675 --> 00:52:41,175
Yeah.

907
00:52:41,474 --> 00:52:41,714
Yeah.

908
00:52:41,714 --> 00:52:43,894
Just it's it's irrelevant.

909
00:52:44,434 --> 00:52:48,355
This paints an even kind of a darker picture.

910
00:52:48,355 --> 00:52:48,675
Right?

911
00:52:48,675 --> 00:52:53,449
Because, you know, they love to take advantage
of the stories when they pop up.

912
00:52:53,449 --> 00:52:53,690
Right?

913
00:52:53,690 --> 00:52:58,010
They love to say, well, this guy made it from
the Korn Ferry Tour and look at look at our

914
00:52:58,010 --> 00:52:58,410
system.

915
00:52:58,410 --> 00:53:00,969
It really works and all that other stuff.

916
00:53:00,969 --> 00:53:05,764
And I've had to, you know, I've had to text a
few different people every single time a Korn

917
00:53:05,764 --> 00:53:08,824
Ferry Tour player wins, which has been several
times this year.

918
00:53:09,525 --> 00:53:14,579
But, excuse me, a Korn Ferry Tour rookie wins
on the PGA Tour.

919
00:53:15,219 --> 00:53:17,219
But and I apologize for the helicopter.

920
00:53:17,219 --> 00:53:27,219
But, the amazing thing is they're gonna sit
there, you know, when this starts to go, and

921
00:53:27,219 --> 00:53:32,094
they're gonna sit there in the 4th month and
the 8th month at the end of the year, of 2026.

922
00:53:32,394 --> 00:53:38,655
And they're gonna send us all spreadsheets the
same way they did when they analyzed the

923
00:53:38,715 --> 00:53:42,539
viewership of the elevated events.

924
00:53:43,159 --> 00:53:49,400
And, essentially, what has happened is and,
Ryan and Matt, I know you guys know this very,

925
00:53:49,400 --> 00:53:50,219
very well.

926
00:53:50,920 --> 00:53:56,974
The viewers were down to I think it was less
than half of what they normally would be during

927
00:53:56,974 --> 00:53:57,535
these events.

928
00:53:57,535 --> 00:53:58,974
And by the way, and I said this last night

929
00:53:59,055 --> 00:53:59,614
Viewers were

930
00:53:59,614 --> 00:53:59,934
not down

931
00:53:59,934 --> 00:54:00,894
as a whole for sure.

932
00:54:00,894 --> 00:54:01,095
Exactly.

933
00:54:01,095 --> 00:54:02,175
It was down as a whole.

934
00:54:02,175 --> 00:54:02,414
Right?

935
00:54:02,414 --> 00:54:04,575
And then you can say, well, the LIV Tour—no.

936
00:54:04,575 --> 00:54:05,954
That's total horseshit.

937
00:54:07,135 --> 00:54:13,650
But it's not because Scottie Scheffler was the
one winning every week, which has nothing to do

938
00:54:13,650 --> 00:54:14,289
with that.

939
00:54:14,289 --> 00:54:19,329
It has to do with the fact that they understand
that those guys showing up have really nothing

940
00:54:19,329 --> 00:54:21,569
to play for other than cash.

941
00:54:21,569 --> 00:54:24,355
They're not playing to change their lives.

942
00:54:24,355 --> 00:54:26,595
They're not, you know, they're not playing to
make a cut.

943
00:54:26,595 --> 00:54:31,255
I mean, half of the fields were essentially
done by halfway through Saturday.

944
00:54:31,394 --> 00:54:34,515
They were so far out of it that they just—yeah.

945
00:54:34,515 --> 00:54:34,835
Fuck it.

946
00:54:34,835 --> 00:54:39,449
I'll just shoot 4 or 5 over and collect my
$100,000 and see you later.

947
00:54:39,590 --> 00:54:40,150
It's funny you

948
00:54:40,150 --> 00:54:45,110
say that, Brent, because it was about a year,
maybe a year and a half ago when all these

949
00:54:45,110 --> 00:54:49,910
changes were starting to be implemented in
regards to increased purses, signature series

950
00:54:49,910 --> 00:54:50,410
events.

951
00:54:51,074 --> 00:54:56,034
But right at the beginning of that, I'm just
like, man, it's almost like they're just trying

952
00:54:56,034 --> 00:55:01,875
through the media to convince players to stay
because of all this money that these guys are

953
00:55:01,875 --> 00:55:05,255
gonna be making and winning on the PGA Tour.

954
00:55:05,450 --> 00:55:06,829
And fans don't give a shit.

955
00:55:06,970 --> 00:55:10,970
Like fans don't care that an event is $20
million.

956
00:55:10,970 --> 00:55:13,369
Like they don't care about that.

957
00:55:13,369 --> 00:55:17,309
They care about their player, their guy that
they're watching.

958
00:55:17,610 --> 00:55:24,275
And then these feel-good stories are the nice
little pieces that round it all out, right?

959
00:55:24,815 --> 00:55:29,775
About a guy winning and changing his entire
trajectory of not only his career but of his

960
00:55:29,775 --> 00:55:30,275
life.

961
00:55:30,894 --> 00:55:35,800
And those are the great stories that really
have made the PGA Tour.

962
00:55:35,800 --> 00:55:40,119
And I think we're getting away from that
because are those the massive needle movers

963
00:55:40,119 --> 00:55:40,859
long term?

964
00:55:41,239 --> 00:55:46,699
No, but those are the minor needle movers that
keep people interested on a week-to-week basis.

965
00:55:46,974 --> 00:55:52,434
That's different than, oh, a top name won, a
top name won, a top name won.

966
00:55:52,655 --> 00:55:58,974
Like, there's those little pieces that are
important to the overall story of what the PGA

967
00:55:58,974 --> 00:55:59,775
Tour is.

968
00:55:59,775 --> 00:56:06,349
And it gives kids, it gives people that, you
know, former pros, like even myself, like I

969
00:56:06,349 --> 00:56:10,349
want to talk about the Monday cues real quick,
because one of the things that I had always

970
00:56:10,349 --> 00:56:14,269
been planning in the back of my mind is one of
these days, I'm going to train and get back to

971
00:56:14,269 --> 00:56:16,214
a point to where I'm playing really good.

972
00:56:16,214 --> 00:56:19,974
And I'm going to try to do the Monday qualifier
for the Waste Management Phoenix Open.

973
00:56:19,974 --> 00:56:22,795
Like that was the one that was always on my
mind.

974
00:56:23,174 --> 00:56:23,574
As to

975
00:56:23,574 --> 00:56:23,734
Be in.

976
00:56:23,734 --> 00:56:24,954
Look, I know.

977
00:56:25,014 --> 00:56:26,454
I, gosh, I only have a

978
00:56:26,454 --> 00:56:27,755
Few months now.

979
00:56:27,815 --> 00:56:28,315
Jeez.

980
00:56:28,889 --> 00:56:32,429
But it's crazy that that is going to be
something that is gone.

981
00:56:32,809 --> 00:56:35,710
That is all of a sudden no longer gonna be a
possibility.

982
00:56:36,170 --> 00:56:36,409
Yeah.

983
00:56:36,409 --> 00:56:41,945
I mean, you know, whatever it was 40 years ago,
half the field was made up of Monday

984
00:56:41,945 --> 00:56:42,445
qualifiers.

985
00:56:42,505 --> 00:56:42,824
Right?

986
00:56:42,824 --> 00:56:50,184
Like, half 70, I think, players were exempt,
and now it's going to not be a part of the PGA

987
00:56:50,184 --> 00:56:50,505
Tour.

988
00:56:50,505 --> 00:56:59,590
So, again, it's more closed door than it's ever
been in my opinion, and it's super unfortunate.

989
00:56:59,730 --> 00:57:00,530
It's super sad.

990
00:57:00,530 --> 00:57:03,090
I, you know, I say this all the time.

991
00:57:03,090 --> 00:57:06,930
People think I hate the PGA Tour, and this is
not the leadership.

992
00:57:06,930 --> 00:57:08,070
I'm talking the product.

993
00:57:08,210 --> 00:57:09,490
I love the PGA Tour.

994
00:57:09,490 --> 00:57:10,605
It's why I do this.

995
00:57:10,925 --> 00:57:15,164
It's why I was a golf nerd when I was 10 years
old, why I played golf.

996
00:57:15,164 --> 00:57:16,625
I love the PGA Tour.

997
00:57:17,085 --> 00:57:21,085
And, to watch this happen sucks as a fan.

998
00:57:21,085 --> 00:57:22,204
Just end of story.

999
00:57:22,204 --> 00:57:22,864
It sucks.

1000
00:57:25,150 --> 00:57:32,750
And, you know, I don't think this is the end,
and I hope, you know, I hold a lot of hope in

1001
00:57:32,750 --> 00:57:36,349
the fact that the next generation of players
learns from the mistakes that their

1002
00:57:36,349 --> 00:57:42,875
predecessors made, and don't pull the ladder up
as they go.

1003
00:57:43,815 --> 00:57:45,655
Well, so I I love that.

1004
00:57:45,655 --> 00:57:50,614
And I I think it's I think it's it's gonna be
really quite interesting, because if you look

1005
00:57:50,614 --> 00:57:56,369
at the if you look at the board, and whom who
it's made up of, obviously, there's one name

1006
00:57:56,369 --> 00:58:00,690
that that, you know, clearly stands above all
of the rest.

1007
00:58:00,690 --> 00:58:10,214
And and, you know, the saddest part the saddest
part, for me, really is, you know, I was told

1008
00:58:10,214 --> 00:58:15,655
at the beginning of the year actually, not even
beginning of the year, June June 4th last year

1009
00:58:15,655 --> 00:58:21,335
when they announced the changes of, you know,
dropping the lawsuits and doing all the other

1010
00:58:21,335 --> 00:58:23,869
stuff to get PIF, to the table.

1011
00:58:24,650 --> 00:58:31,469
You know, I was told that that Tiger if there's
one guy that is really gonna make a positive

1012
00:58:31,609 --> 00:58:36,589
influence on the PGA Tour and really steer the
ship correctly, it's Tiger Woods.

1013
00:58:37,735 --> 00:58:44,954
And the thing I just am really disappointed in
is all of the people that have been mentioned

1014
00:58:45,094 --> 00:58:51,779
in his career that he stands with and that he
tries to be like and an Arnie or or excuse me.

1015
00:58:51,779 --> 00:58:57,639
a Mister Palmer or a Mister Nicklaus or a
Mister Player, you know, all of these names,

1016
00:58:58,500 --> 00:59:07,965
and these people that have, you know, all but,
you know, just basically wash their hands of

1017
00:59:07,965 --> 00:59:13,085
mentioning LIV or how terrible it is because,
you know, it's pretty clear all these guys are

1018
00:59:13,085 --> 00:59:15,345
just going for the money and yada yada yada.

1019
00:59:15,805 --> 00:59:21,849
And here we are, a year removed from all the
9/11 commercials and all the BS media.

1020
00:59:22,150 --> 00:59:22,650
Right?

1021
00:59:22,789 --> 00:59:30,150
And we're sitting here trying to sell a product
as if we're trying to make it the best it

1022
00:59:30,150 --> 00:59:31,449
possibly can be.

1023
00:59:31,724 --> 00:59:39,005
And it's so disappointing, and it's gonna
remain disappointing, by the way, even when I

1024
00:59:39,005 --> 00:59:39,885
get on the PGA Tour.

1025
00:59:39,885 --> 00:59:42,925
And somebody's gonna ask, well, why would you
try to get on the PGA Tour?

1026
00:59:42,925 --> 00:59:46,070
And here's my quick and simple answer.

1027
00:59:46,289 --> 00:59:49,750
I'm really fucking good at golf, and I can make
a lot of money doing it.

1028
00:59:49,970 --> 00:59:53,190
So until that's not the case, I'm gonna try.

1029
00:59:53,490 --> 01:00:01,364
But that doesn't mean I can't talk shit and
point towards and hold people accountable,

1030
01:00:03,025 --> 01:00:04,784
but the crowd goes wild for that one,

1031
01:00:04,784 --> 01:00:05,025
buddy.

1032
01:00:05,105 --> 01:00:10,144
So everybody understands, you know, I just
holding people accountable, holding myself

1033
01:00:10,144 --> 01:00:11,344
accountable is very important.

1034
01:00:11,344 --> 01:00:13,204
And like I said, I don't make excuses.

1035
01:00:13,610 --> 01:00:18,170
And I would hope guys that work as hard as they
do on their game would be able to open their

1036
01:00:18,170 --> 01:00:22,670
eyes just briefly to see, you know, the people
that they're stepping on.

1037
01:00:23,530 --> 01:00:27,849
And, you know, there's 10 of us that got
stepped on by the PGA Tour with regards to the

1038
01:00:28,454 --> 01:00:32,075
earnings assurance program, and there's
probably let's see.

1039
01:00:32,454 --> 01:00:38,075
If it's 20 people per event for 40 events,
that's, that's a lot of people.

1040
01:00:38,135 --> 01:00:41,255
So, you know, it's really sad.

1041
01:00:41,255 --> 01:00:41,575
K.

1042
01:00:41,575 --> 01:00:48,429
If you wanna know the irony in all of this,
Greg Norman Jr., k, loves the Twitter.

1043
01:00:48,429 --> 01:00:48,929
Right?

1044
01:00:49,389 --> 01:00:57,635
Came out and said that next year, there might
be a community team that is of Monday

1045
01:00:57,635 --> 01:01:01,074
qualifiers that would get into an event and may
I

1046
01:01:01,074 --> 01:01:02,514
might just go full LIV, guys.

1047
01:01:02,514 --> 01:01:03,954
I just went to the full LIV.

1048
01:01:03,954 --> 01:01:04,355
That's right.

1049
01:01:04,355 --> 01:01:04,594
We all

1050
01:01:04,594 --> 01:01:05,255
have a

1051
01:01:05,875 --> 01:01:06,514
I'm in.

1052
01:01:06,994 --> 01:01:08,695
I keep saying this every time.

1053
01:01:08,994 --> 01:01:09,815
Meet me.

1054
01:01:09,954 --> 01:01:10,695
I'm in.

1055
01:01:10,949 --> 01:01:11,829
Let's go.

1056
01:01:11,829 --> 01:01:12,230
I'm in.

1057
01:01:12,230 --> 01:01:13,369
We all have a price.

1058
01:01:14,309 --> 01:01:15,289
We all do.

1059
01:01:15,429 --> 01:01:20,869
I'm like, well, wouldn't that be ironic if LIV
Golf becomes the main spot for Monday

1060
01:01:20,869 --> 01:01:21,369
qualifiers?

1061
01:01:21,589 --> 01:01:22,650
It would be incredible.

1062
01:01:23,085 --> 01:01:25,965
You wouldn't have to change your name at all.

1063
01:01:25,965 --> 01:01:27,025
You know what I mean?

1064
01:01:27,405 --> 01:01:29,644
So I saw that tweet too, by the way.

1065
01:01:29,644 --> 01:01:31,244
That got me sad when

1066
01:01:31,244 --> 01:01:32,605
somebody's on Monday Q.

1067
01:01:32,605 --> 01:01:34,284
Easy Monday Q on the LIV tour.

1068
01:01:34,284 --> 01:01:34,684
Right?

1069
01:01:34,684 --> 01:01:37,264
You have a 4 spot to start the season.

1070
01:01:37,405 --> 01:01:37,905
Okay?

1071
01:01:38,739 --> 01:01:41,160
Those guys go play as a team.

1072
01:01:41,860 --> 01:01:45,059
If they finish top 3 as a team, the entire team
stays.

1073
01:01:45,059 --> 01:01:52,484
If an individual finishes top 10, then he
stays, and the 3 other teammates are replaced

1074
01:01:52,484 --> 01:01:53,764
and they play the next week.

1075
01:01:53,764 --> 01:01:54,164
Right?

1076
01:01:54,164 --> 01:01:54,684
Makes sense.

1077
01:01:54,964 --> 01:01:58,184
Team doesn't finish top 3 or top 10, then it's
a whole new team.

1078
01:01:58,244 --> 01:01:58,565
Right?

1079
01:01:58,565 --> 01:02:00,824
You can hold those qualifiers in 1 week.

1080
01:02:01,045 --> 01:02:02,644
You just rank the players.

1081
01:02:02,644 --> 01:02:03,045
Right?

1082
01:02:03,045 --> 01:02:04,425
1 to 50.

1083
01:02:05,159 --> 01:02:09,900
If you're the 30th player, you want those teams
to fail week after week so you get in.

1084
01:02:10,119 --> 01:02:14,359
If you're the number one player, you get into
the first event, and you can hold your own

1085
01:02:14,359 --> 01:02:14,679
spots.

1086
01:02:14,679 --> 01:02:15,179
Easy.

1087
01:02:15,400 --> 01:02:15,900
Simple.

1088
01:02:16,280 --> 01:02:16,780
Simple.

1089
01:02:16,920 --> 01:02:17,239
Simple.

1090
01:02:17,239 --> 01:02:21,425
And you'd have 7,000,000,000 players sign up
for the qualifier.

1091
01:02:22,765 --> 01:02:25,105
LIV is not making any money anywhere.

1092
01:02:25,405 --> 01:02:31,505
So if they just did a Monday qualifier for the
entire season, they'd need 10 golf courses.

1093
01:02:32,204 --> 01:02:33,025
Oh, at least.

1094
01:02:33,900 --> 01:02:42,299
Well, guys, I think that right there wraps up
this special episode of The Dark Side of the

1095
01:02:42,299 --> 01:02:43,199
PGA Tour.

1096
01:02:43,739 --> 01:02:51,954
It's funny because as we were going, I kind of
led into that name for this special that we're

1097
01:02:51,954 --> 01:02:52,275
doing.

1098
01:02:52,275 --> 01:02:55,715
And I'm just like, you know, does this really
fit?

1099
01:02:55,715 --> 01:02:59,315
And then the more we talked about it today, I'm
like, yeah, it really does.

1100
01:02:59,315 --> 01:03:05,070
Like, this is heading in a dark direction, and
it's misguided in my opinion.

1101
01:03:05,369 --> 01:03:10,730
And we've talked about that on this particular
episode, but I do want to thank you, Ryan, for

1102
01:03:10,730 --> 01:03:12,010
your time, Mr.

1103
01:03:12,010 --> 01:03:18,190
Ryan French from Monday Q Info, obviously Brent
Grant, who is directly affected by this, and

1104
01:03:18,575 --> 01:03:21,795
our tour insider and co-host on the Pull Hook
Golf podcast.

1105
01:03:21,934 --> 01:03:24,655
So thank you for being so open about it, Brent.

1106
01:03:24,655 --> 01:03:29,934
I know that this one hits home very directly
for you, and I understand why you're bitter

1107
01:03:29,934 --> 01:03:33,855
about the whole damn thing, especially as we've
gone through all of this.

1108
01:03:33,855 --> 01:03:38,519
But folks, as per usual, make sure to tune in.

1109
01:03:39,460 --> 01:03:41,940
We're live on Tuesdays at 7 p.m.

1110
01:03:41,940 --> 01:03:42,840
Pacific time.

1111
01:03:43,219 --> 01:03:47,300
And now on top of that, yeah, there's things to
get there.

1112
01:03:47,300 --> 01:03:48,735
There's changes being made.

1113
01:03:48,815 --> 01:03:53,215
Big changes being made around the Pull Hook
Golf podcast, but stay tuned.

1114
01:03:53,215 --> 01:03:54,755
And thank you, everybody.

1115
01:03:54,974 --> 01:03:56,114
Until next time.

1116
01:03:56,175 --> 01:03:58,195
Peace out, A-Town down.