Saturday, December 28, 2024

Show Notes

Matt Cook sits down with Ted Simons for an insightful discussion on his diverse career in golf and sports initiatives worldwide. Ted shares his experiences with Nicklaus Academies and the challenges faced in international markets. They delve into his recent projects, including golf course development in India, and discuss LIV Golf's impact on customer experience and the industry. The conversation shifts to the future of the golf industry, including debates on rolling back golf ball performance and sustainability. Ted highlights global expansion trends and the role of technology in sports. The episode wraps with a rapid-fire Q&A and Ted's dream foursome, concluding with his work at Synergy Group Consulting.

(0:00) Introduction and career overview of Ted Simons
(1:39) Ted Simons' varied roles and international sports initiatives
(4:14) Nicklaus Academies collaboration and international market challenges
(14:50) Ted Simons' recent projects and golf course development in India
(17:14) LIV Golf discussion: Customer experience, Ryder Cup, and industry impact
(35:26) Golf industry future predictions and rolling back golf ball performance
(43:09) Amateurs in golf ball rollback debate and making golf sustainable
(47:59) Global golf expansion trends and project highlights
(56:11) Golf technology's impact on sports and rapid fire Q&A with Ted Simons
(59:48) Ted's dream foursome and concluding thoughts
(1:01:32) Synergy Group Consulting and Ted's social media info
(1:02:26) Closing remarks

Show Transcript

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Welcome back, everybody, to Pull Hook Golf, the
podcast.

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I'm your host, Matt Cook.

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And today, we have a fascinating episode for
you.

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Joining us is a visionary in the sports world
development, product innovation, and golf

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disruption.

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Ted Simons is here.

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And, man, Ted's resume is extensive, folks.

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He began his journey in retail sporting goods
for Razzignol in ski and tennis and then

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evolved into a leader in video and film
production.

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Then founded Synergy Group Marketing, where
he's led iconic sports projects for clients

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like Wilson Sporting Goods, U.S.

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Ski Team, Yonex Golf, if you remember Yonex,
everybody, ProForm Fitness, and Nicklaus

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Academies.

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But I do want to give a brief overview of what
you're going to be listening to today with Ted.

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We're going to dive deep into Ted's background.

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We're going to get his experience with
international sports initiatives.

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And then, of course, we've got to talk a little
bit about LIV Golf and the PGA Tour, the

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rivalry there, and where he thinks the golf
industry is headed.

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Welcome to the show, Ted.

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Thank you very much.

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Appreciate you having me, Matt.

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Worth a call.

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It's my pleasure.

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We had a great conversation.

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You actually were reaching out to me around a
couple people that you work with that you want

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to have on the show.

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And the more that we got talking, I'm like, you
know what?

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I absolutely have to have you on an episode
because you have so much insight.

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And what's awesome is you've worked a lot
internationally, which I don't think I talk to

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enough people in the golf industry that have
that experience, and that's where it's going to

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lead us into the LIV Golf side of things.

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But first off, I want to get into your
background, your approach.

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Now you've had such a varied career.

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From sports products to film production and now
golf development, can you walk us through how

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your career evolved and what led to where
you're at today?

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I wish I had a road map to be able to show you
and share all this with you.

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But, yeah, I just, you know, moved and shaped
and went where my career took me, where my

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relationships took me.

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So, yeah, I started in retail sporting goods.

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I was a baseball player, but, you know, once I
got there, my goal, my vision was to become a

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ski rep.

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That's all I wanted to do.

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These guys and gals, they—I mean, they were my
idols.

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They were the pinnacle of—I mean, if I got to
that, I was done.

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And, sure enough, I was able to get there.

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And oddly enough, at the ripe age of 34, I
decided I didn't wanna be an old rep, maybe,

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you know, standing on the plaza Snowbird
freezing my butt off.

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Yeah, it taught me that maybe there's a
different path here.

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And so, yeah, I left the repping, got into the
video production world, focused on sports and

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resorts, and, yep, figured out that, you know,
I was unemployable, if you will.

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I don't really fit into corporate structure.

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So, I was given the opportunity to start my own
company, and that's when I founded Synergy

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Group Marketing.

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And from there, I just, you know, continue to
evolve.

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Yeah.

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I started writing video scripts because I
couldn't find producers that understood what I

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wanted from a product information piece for
Yonex Golf or Yonex Tennis, Wilson Sporting

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Goods, those types of things.

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So, I started to write scripts, started to
produce, started to shoot my own video, because

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I knew what I wanted to see.

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And that was just a great company that I built,
and everything just kind of evolved.

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I got more into fitness.

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Yeah.

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Fitness manufacturers led me to NASM, which led
me down other paths, other technologies, and

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eventually, I got introduced to the group that
was running Nicklaus Academies.

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And after a period of consulting with them,
they brought me on board as executive VP and

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COO.

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And I had the opportunity, the privilege of
representing Mr.

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Nicklaus around the world for 18 years.

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Wow.

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That's incredible.

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Now, obviously, you love working with products
as well as on projects around these.

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Can you share some examples for the audience of
how getting into the details made a difference

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in a project's success?

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Yeah.

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I'm weird because I don't understand
manufacturing.

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I'm certainly not an engineer.

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But little things like going to the factories
and seeing how they lay up Rossignol skis,

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which has changed now.

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But, you know, seeing how they lay things so
you understood, you know, all the components

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that went into making a product perform.

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One of my more interesting ones is we went and
filmed how you make Wilson tennis balls, which

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was—I think I can still smell the factory, the
resins.

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I may still have some of the felt, you know,
somewhere in my DNA.

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But, you know, getting into and watching the
people doing the work and, you know, their

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care, their precision to come out, you know, to
at the end of the production, you know, sees

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it.

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You know, they wanted that Wilson tennis ball
to be the best ball on the market.

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From there now, it's easy to produce a video
about it because you can share the passion.

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You can share their attention to detail, their
commitment to the brand.

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And when I got those opportunities to see how
things get made, how the engineers design

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things, it made it really, really easy to
produce their marketing pieces, their product

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information pieces that, yeah, I became
passionate about.

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I love my clients.

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I love their projects.

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So

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I gotta go back to Mr.

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Nicklaus's brand because, obviously, we're on a
golf podcast.

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I wanna find out working with the Golden Bear
and so forth.

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But before we do, now within working with Mr.

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Nicklaus, you worked a lot internationally.

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Right?

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So you worked in Brazil, I believe, India, and
China.

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What was it like working in those markets, and
how did you kinda ensure that those projects

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succeeded within that international brand?

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Well, I mean, it goes back to, you know,
almost, you know, the manufacturing.

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I visited, I think I counted 54 countries to
establish 28 locations.

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So, yeah, I woke up and, you know, I'm on the
coast of Croatia going, where the hell am I?

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I'm on the Mediterranean somewhere.

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Yeah.

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So being able to travel internationally, and I
traveled alone.

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You know, me and my carry-on bag and my
backpack with a laptop and a cell phone and,

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you know, just hope that I got picked up by the
person that I was trying to communicate with.

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Yeah.

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But, you know, having the golden bear, you
know, as on your business card, I mean, you

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know, talk about opening doors.

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Yeah.

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That was the first step, but, you know, really
getting to know the people, getting to know the

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projects, the lay of the land, walking the, you
know, walking the earth, if you will, to make

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sure that who you're dealing with, the projects
you're looking at, what the market potential

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is, added to Mr.

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Nicklaus's bucket, right, and did not take away
from his brand.

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And so, yep, that's a, you know, I yeah.

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It's a tremendous responsibility that, you
know, I took obviously very seriously, and I

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passed that on to, you know, my eventual
clients that, you know, I negotiated 20-year

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agreements with.

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You're I mean, you're talking about a long-term
marriage here.

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So you've got to make sure that you've got the
right people that are funding the project, that

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are going to be behind the project for the long
haul, and then working with them to design, to

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develop, to create that experience and hiring
people that didn't work for me, that didn't

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work for the client.

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Every day they put that shirt on, that hat on,
they represented Mr.

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Nicklaus.

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And yeah.

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I was working with Jack, by the way.

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I don't mean to interrupt you, but you're
enticing me here with talking about all of

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this.

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I'm like, how was the Golden Bear?

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Well, you know, Golden Bear is like every one
of us.

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You know?

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We all have good days, and we have bad days.

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And, you know, I was told by Jack early on that
you don't want a phone call from me.

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That means I've maybe made a mistake somewhere.

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So as long as, yeah, he put the trust in our
organization to represent his brand and, yep, I

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would report in.

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I would see Jack.

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I would fly into Florida and see him in the
office from time to time.

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I would have the luxury of kind of melding
design projects with an academy project to

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being able to be on the ground with Jack and
really show off what we were doing in his name.

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Yep.

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And, yeah, that part of it was very gratifying
because if you think about the brand, the

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academies were the only thing that touched the
customer.

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You can have 400 golf courses around the world.

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You can have ice cream.

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You can have shirts.

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You can have golf clubs.

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But at the end of the day, the only person
touching the golfer is a golf instructor.

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That's good boys.

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So we took that as our responsibility, our
mantra as, yep.

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I think it's an overused term now, but, yeah.

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Yeah, growing the game in these developing
countries where golf is, you know, not what it

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is in America, not what it is in the UK or
Scotland, knowing that you're going in and

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putting an academy in Guam or Jakarta, yeah, or
Tsingtao, of all places.

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I mean, yeah, even outside of Sao Paulo.

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Yeah.

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golf instruction in many of these markets never
existed.

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And when you come in with a brand like Nicklaus
and the facilities that we were able to design

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and have built and outfitted and bring in the
expat pros to teach Jack's philosophy, and

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again, represent Mr.

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Nicklaus, kinda mean what you know, what a
blast.

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A lot of fun, but I gotta imagine there's some
complexity there.

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Right?

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Not working in the United States and bringing
these new academies to these different markets.

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What are some glaring differences between kinda
setting something up here domestically versus

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going international like that?

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Well, when we would design coaching studios, we
would provide the architects and the engineers

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with our specifications.

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And, you know, you would constantly be on the
phone or email, you know, ensuring that these

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specifications were being adhered to and being,
yeah, being guaranteed.

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No problem.

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Don't worry, Mr.

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Simons.

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Don't worry, Mr.

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Simons.

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We've got it.

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And, you know, Qingdao is a perfect example.

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Yeah.

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Fly in to, you know, back in those days,
install the equipment, put in the high-speed

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cameras and the pressure mat and the launch
monitors and the computers.

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And instead of having a 3-inch conduit, you had
a 1 and a half inch conduit.

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You can't feed cables through that size
conduit.

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And, you know, just looking at them going, you
know, you have to tear out the concrete.

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We have to tear out the walls.

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We have to start over again.

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And,

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That's gotta be a tough conversation.

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That's a it's a tough conversation, because
sometimes there are language differences.

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My Chinese is not very good.

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My Korean is not very good.

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I figured out early on, don't try.

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All you're going to do is butcher and offend,
so make sure you have a translator wherever you

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go.

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But, yeah, tough conversation to say.

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Yep.

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We, you know, we've gotta start over again.

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Imagine being the interpreter.

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You're telling them what to say, and then they
gotta relay the tough message.

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They've gotta relay the tough message, and you
have to, you know, you have to keep that, you

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know, that face on, if you will.

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And and, you know, that's what they call it,
saving face in Asia.

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You know, you have to maintain your, you know,
your confidence and not look like a jerk, while

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ensuring that they understand in a polite way
they made a mistake.

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It's not my fault.

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It's your expense.

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And, I guess I will be back in two weeks, and
we'll start over again.

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So jump on a plane and, you know, come back to
the States and, do it all over again.

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That's incredible.

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00:14:51,569 --> 00:14:52,529
Tell me a little bit.

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So moving beyond the Nicklaus brand, what are
some recent projects that you've been working

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on?

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Yeah.

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We've been, Yeah.

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And I'm I'm not at liberty to announce, but we
have a, you know, I was contracted to put

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together a branded academy in Vietnam.

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Yep.

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So okay.

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They give me a list of, you know, top 10 names
that, yeah, are recognizable to them.

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And my job is to go out and, yep, negotiate
with a, yeah, with a high-level well-known

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instructor that has the interest in expanding
their brand in Vietnam.

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Yeah.

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Interesting enough, I just, you know, got off
the phone before we got on and, you know, in

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talks in India.

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You know, looking at how you can, you know, put
together golf projects to, you know, introduce

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the game to more and more people because in
India, land is very difficult to put together.

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Yeah.

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Every literally every citizen in India, I
swear, owns a piece of land.

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And, you know, getting, you know, 30 or 40 or
50 landowners to agree to yeah.

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Or more to put together a golf course is almost
impossible, which is why growing, yeah, golf

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course development is tough in India, not to
mention water.

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So that's where yeah.

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How do you put together innovative driving
ranges?

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How do you put together short courses?

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You know, it could be three holes.

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It could be six holes.

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It could be 12 holes.

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It could be nine.

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It doesn't matter.

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How do you, you know, how do you assemble
enough land and bring together a creative golf

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experience?

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Because at the end of the day, you know, I'm
all about, you know, what is the experience?

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What is the customer's experience?

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What is the golfer's experience?

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And, you know, whether it's a Nicklaus brand or
somebody else's brand or nobody's brand.

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Yeah.

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What is your experience?

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That's why you come back a second time, a third
time, a fourth time.

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Great marketing, great design, will get you
there once.

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But if your experience is crappy, why would you
come back and spend your time and spend your

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money?

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And I think that's where a lot of projects, not
just golf, but a lot of projects fall short is

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they don't look at the end consumer who, you
know, who are we designing for?

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And if we can't achieve that, poof, you know,
we've wasted a whole lot of time and money to

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build the Taj Mahal that nobody wants.

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That's really interesting.

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And just that dynamic that you just mentioned,
and it sounds like I mean, especially bringing

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golf courses over to, let's say, India sounds
not only complicated and complex, but at the

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same time like it's kind of a disruptor within
that market.

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So now we got to dive into the hot topic which
is LIV Golf.

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I mean it has been the—and we're just gonna get
right into it because, really working with

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disruptors and bringing to new markets and so
forth, how do you think LIV Golf is or how do

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you see them as a disruptor in the market?

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And ultimately, do you think it's good for the
game?

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Well, yeah, in I think in the traditional
sense, especially with the PGA Tour, yeah.

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You know, for sure, LIV is a disruptor.

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If you go to Bangkok, Thailand to a LIV event,
you're not disrupting anything.

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You're bringing the best players in the world
to your country.

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They don't care if it's 54 holes, a shotgun,
you know, music, whatever.

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They're having the opportunities that the PGA
Tour would never give them by traveling to,

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yeah, to traveling to Thailand or bringing,
yeah, a major tour with big stars back to

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Australia.

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So yes.

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Yeah.

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Are they going to Chicago?

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Are big crowds gonna show up?

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You know, who knows?

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Maybe, maybe not.

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Not everybody is into their model and their
presentation.

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But outside of, you know, the protected borders
of the United States, yeah, LIV is, you know,

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LIV is making a difference in exposing the game
of golf.

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Is it growing it?

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I don't know.

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That's up to, you know, that's up to, I guess,
people like me and others that are developing

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projects that reach the masses, but they're
exposing the game of golf and, you know, to

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show up and, you know, see Jon Rahm, to see
Phil Mickelson.

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Hell.

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I mean, if I was in Thailand, I would buy a
ticket and go see it.

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Right?

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Because you would not ever have that
opportunity.

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So for that reason, sure.

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You know, it is it's exposing masses, millions
and millions of people to the game of golf.

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00:20:33,940 --> 00:20:37,700
I think you raise a really good point with the
international aspect because outside of the

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United States, I mean, we get so often, and
this was kind of an awakening for me as well as

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I say this, around the fact that especially
when I started interacting on Twitter or X, and

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all of a sudden, you start getting these
international opinions and you start to see

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kind of how, you know, a lot of people are
against the PGA Tour from international areas,

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and it tends to be Australia, tends to be the
UK a little bit.

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And it's really interesting to have this
dynamic to where people within the United

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States, a lot of them are pro-PGA Tour and
don't want LIV.

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00:21:16,434 --> 00:21:20,994
Granted, there's certainly people within the
United States that like LIV Golf and so forth.

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I've always played a neutral; I've always been
a neutral party around it because I just don't

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take the politics as a part of the argument,
and if you remove that, you just focus in on

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the golfers, then you tend to have more of a
neutral opinion towards LIV Golf in particular.

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00:21:39,295 --> 00:21:44,894
But again, going back to the international
aspect and how it's exposing the game and it's

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00:21:44,894 --> 00:21:49,855
bringing the game to these different areas
internationally and becoming a little bit of a

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00:21:49,855 --> 00:21:50,835
global tour.

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00:21:50,975 --> 00:21:58,840
But do you think that with it being more on the
global aspect, and them talking about this and

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00:21:58,840 --> 00:22:04,519
bringing these players over and exposing them
to these new areas, that it should have more of

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00:22:04,519 --> 00:22:10,375
an international focus than even what it has
today, where still we've got multiple

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tournaments throughout the year taking place
here in the United States?

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00:22:16,355 --> 00:22:16,595
Yeah.

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00:22:16,595 --> 00:22:24,690
I mean, you know, LIV has to make a mark in the
States to be, you know, whatever successful is

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00:22:24,690 --> 00:22:25,349
to them.

323
00:22:25,890 --> 00:22:26,210
Right?

324
00:22:26,210 --> 00:22:29,109
I mean, you have to have the number one media
market.

325
00:22:30,450 --> 00:22:36,884
You have to have that exposure or I'm not so
sure the ultimate business model works,

326
00:22:38,164 --> 00:22:39,545
whatever that may be.

327
00:22:40,404 --> 00:22:46,565
But, you know, not only do you see, you know,
like, the excitement of a LIV tournament coming

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00:22:46,565 --> 00:22:56,139
to these countries in these areas, you also see
players that are on LIV that are no longer able

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00:22:56,139 --> 00:23:04,299
to play PGA Tour events, they can play DP Tour
events to get their world points so they can

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00:23:04,299 --> 00:23:05,599
qualify for majors.

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00:23:06,585 --> 00:23:12,345
And so all of a sudden, you've got, again,
world-class players that are playing, you know,

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00:23:12,345 --> 00:23:17,085
Asian Tour events, whoever sanctioning whatever
to get points.

333
00:23:17,545 --> 00:23:17,865
Yeah.

334
00:23:17,865 --> 00:23:24,759
Now you've got, you know, the Abraham Ancers of
the world playing events that you never would

335
00:23:24,759 --> 00:23:25,819
have seen before.

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00:23:25,960 --> 00:23:34,115
So the downstream positive effect of LIV, you
know, is, you know, I think it's also being

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00:23:34,255 --> 00:23:40,914
underappreciated by, and God bless their souls,
these players.

338
00:23:41,134 --> 00:23:42,674
Yes, they signed on.

339
00:23:43,215 --> 00:23:45,154
They knew what they were signing for.

340
00:23:45,535 --> 00:23:47,875
They certainly cashed the checks.

341
00:23:49,180 --> 00:23:49,420
Yeah.

342
00:23:49,420 --> 00:23:54,860
But they're still, I mean, they're out there
chasing their world ranking points to get into

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00:23:54,860 --> 00:24:00,779
majors and, you know, knock on wood, you know,
one of these days, you know, allowed to play

344
00:24:00,779 --> 00:24:01,545
Ryder Cup.

345
00:24:02,984 --> 00:24:04,585
That certainly would be interesting.

346
00:24:04,585 --> 00:24:09,144
I know a lot of people have talked about, we'd
love to see a Ryder Cup set up between LIV

347
00:24:09,144 --> 00:24:10,845
players and PGA Tour players.

348
00:24:10,904 --> 00:24:15,545
So there's that aspect too that maybe some
point down the road, we get something a little

349
00:24:15,545 --> 00:24:16,265
bit like that.

350
00:24:16,265 --> 00:24:22,440
But just to have somebody, and I know Keegan
Bradley as the captain of the U.S.

351
00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:25,799
Ryder Cup team for 2025 said, I want the best
players in the world.

352
00:24:25,799 --> 00:24:28,619
I don't want it just to be PGA Tour players.

353
00:24:28,804 --> 00:24:34,085
So it sounds like that opens up the door once
again to a Brooks Koepka, to ultimately a

354
00:24:34,085 --> 00:24:36,265
Bryson DeChambeau potentially.

355
00:24:36,484 --> 00:24:40,585
So that'll be interesting to see how that
dynamic all takes place.

356
00:24:40,644 --> 00:24:46,580
But you did raise a good point around the DP
World Tour and how, you know, players that you

357
00:24:46,580 --> 00:24:50,980
normally wouldn't see playing in those events
are starting to play in those events because

358
00:24:50,980 --> 00:24:53,240
they need official world golf rankings.

359
00:24:53,380 --> 00:24:57,924
I don't want to go so far into the weeds with
the official world golf rankings because that

360
00:24:57,924 --> 00:25:02,025
is we could have an hour-long conversation just
around that alone.

361
00:25:02,644 --> 00:25:07,605
But it's kind of a cause and effect to where,
you know, they aren't getting the official

362
00:25:07,605 --> 00:25:13,630
World Golf Ranking points from the LIV Golf
circuit, and now they're going to have to chase

363
00:25:13,630 --> 00:25:18,049
those points and continue to get those through
the DP World Tour.

364
00:25:18,109 --> 00:25:23,329
So, ultimately, do you think it's been a
positive for the DP World Tour?

365
00:25:25,884 --> 00:25:35,325
I think live well, yes and no because I mean,
there's some that, you know, that were, I'll

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00:25:35,325 --> 00:25:35,965
jus