Saturday, December 28, 2024

Show Notes

Matt Cook sits down with Ted Simons for an insightful discussion on his diverse career in golf and sports initiatives worldwide. Ted shares his experiences with Nicklaus Academies and the challenges faced in international markets. They delve into his recent projects, including golf course development in India, and discuss LIV Golf's impact on customer experience and the industry. The conversation shifts to the future of the golf industry, including debates on rolling back golf ball performance and sustainability. Ted highlights global expansion trends and the role of technology in sports. The episode wraps with a rapid-fire Q&A and Ted's dream foursome, concluding with his work at Synergy Group Consulting.

(0:00) Introduction and career overview of Ted Simons
(1:39) Ted Simons' varied roles and international sports initiatives
(4:14) Nicklaus Academies collaboration and international market challenges
(14:50) Ted Simons' recent projects and golf course development in India
(17:14) LIV Golf discussion: Customer experience, Ryder Cup, and industry impact
(35:26) Golf industry future predictions and rolling back golf ball performance
(43:09) Amateurs in golf ball rollback debate and making golf sustainable
(47:59) Global golf expansion trends and project highlights
(56:11) Golf technology's impact on sports and rapid fire Q&A with Ted Simons
(59:48) Ted's dream foursome and concluding thoughts
(1:01:32) Synergy Group Consulting and Ted's social media info
(1:02:26) Closing remarks

Show Transcript

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Welcome back, everybody, to Pull Hook Golf, the
podcast.

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I'm your host, Matt Cook.

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And today, we have a fascinating episode for
you.

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Joining us is a visionary in the sports world
development, product innovation, and golf

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disruption.

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Ted Simons is here.

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And, man, Ted's resume is extensive, folks.

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He began his journey in retail sporting goods
for Razzignol in ski and tennis and then

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evolved into a leader in video and film
production.

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Then founded Synergy Group Marketing, where
he's led iconic sports projects for clients

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like Wilson Sporting Goods, U.S.

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Ski Team, Yonex Golf, if you remember Yonex,
everybody, ProForm Fitness, and Nicklaus

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Academies.

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But I do want to give a brief overview of what
you're going to be listening to today with Ted.

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We're going to dive deep into Ted's background.

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We're going to get his experience with
international sports initiatives.

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And then, of course, we've got to talk a little
bit about LIV Golf and the PGA Tour, the

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rivalry there, and where he thinks the golf
industry is headed.

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Welcome to the show, Ted.

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Thank you very much.

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Appreciate you having me, Matt.

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Worth a call.

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It's my pleasure.

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We had a great conversation.

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You actually were reaching out to me around a
couple people that you work with that you want

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to have on the show.

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And the more that we got talking, I'm like, you
know what?

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I absolutely have to have you on an episode
because you have so much insight.

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And what's awesome is you've worked a lot
internationally, which I don't think I talk to

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enough people in the golf industry that have
that experience, and that's where it's going to

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lead us into the LIV Golf side of things.

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But first off, I want to get into your
background, your approach.

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Now you've had such a varied career.

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From sports products to film production and now
golf development, can you walk us through how

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your career evolved and what led to where
you're at today?

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I wish I had a road map to be able to show you
and share all this with you.

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But, yeah, I just, you know, moved and shaped
and went where my career took me, where my

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relationships took me.

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So, yeah, I started in retail sporting goods.

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I was a baseball player, but, you know, once I
got there, my goal, my vision was to become a

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ski rep.

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That's all I wanted to do.

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These guys and gals, they—I mean, they were my
idols.

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They were the pinnacle of—I mean, if I got to
that, I was done.

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And, sure enough, I was able to get there.

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And oddly enough, at the ripe age of 34, I
decided I didn't wanna be an old rep, maybe,

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you know, standing on the plaza Snowbird
freezing my butt off.

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Yeah, it taught me that maybe there's a
different path here.

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And so, yeah, I left the repping, got into the
video production world, focused on sports and

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resorts, and, yep, figured out that, you know,
I was unemployable, if you will.

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I don't really fit into corporate structure.

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So, I was given the opportunity to start my own
company, and that's when I founded Synergy

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Group Marketing.

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And from there, I just, you know, continue to
evolve.

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Yeah.

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I started writing video scripts because I
couldn't find producers that understood what I

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wanted from a product information piece for
Yonex Golf or Yonex Tennis, Wilson Sporting

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Goods, those types of things.

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So, I started to write scripts, started to
produce, started to shoot my own video, because

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I knew what I wanted to see.

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And that was just a great company that I built,
and everything just kind of evolved.

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I got more into fitness.

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Yeah.

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Fitness manufacturers led me to NASM, which led
me down other paths, other technologies, and

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eventually, I got introduced to the group that
was running Nicklaus Academies.

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And after a period of consulting with them,
they brought me on board as executive VP and

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COO.

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And I had the opportunity, the privilege of
representing Mr.

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Nicklaus around the world for 18 years.

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Wow.

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That's incredible.

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Now, obviously, you love working with products
as well as on projects around these.

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Can you share some examples for the audience of
how getting into the details made a difference

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in a project's success?

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Yeah.

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I'm weird because I don't understand
manufacturing.

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I'm certainly not an engineer.

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But little things like going to the factories
and seeing how they lay up Rossignol skis,

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which has changed now.

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But, you know, seeing how they lay things so
you understood, you know, all the components

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that went into making a product perform.

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One of my more interesting ones is we went and
filmed how you make Wilson tennis balls, which

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was—I think I can still smell the factory, the
resins.

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I may still have some of the felt, you know,
somewhere in my DNA.

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But, you know, getting into and watching the
people doing the work and, you know, their

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care, their precision to come out, you know, to
at the end of the production, you know, sees

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it.

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You know, they wanted that Wilson tennis ball
to be the best ball on the market.

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From there now, it's easy to produce a video
about it because you can share the passion.

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You can share their attention to detail, their
commitment to the brand.

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And when I got those opportunities to see how
things get made, how the engineers design

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things, it made it really, really easy to
produce their marketing pieces, their product

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information pieces that, yeah, I became
passionate about.

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I love my clients.

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I love their projects.

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So

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I gotta go back to Mr.

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Nicklaus's brand because, obviously, we're on a
golf podcast.

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I wanna find out working with the Golden Bear
and so forth.

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But before we do, now within working with Mr.

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Nicklaus, you worked a lot internationally.

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Right?

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So you worked in Brazil, I believe, India, and
China.

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What was it like working in those markets, and
how did you kinda ensure that those projects

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succeeded within that international brand?

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Well, I mean, it goes back to, you know,
almost, you know, the manufacturing.

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I visited, I think I counted 54 countries to
establish 28 locations.

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So, yeah, I woke up and, you know, I'm on the
coast of Croatia going, where the hell am I?

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I'm on the Mediterranean somewhere.

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Yeah.

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So being able to travel internationally, and I
traveled alone.

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You know, me and my carry-on bag and my
backpack with a laptop and a cell phone and,

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you know, just hope that I got picked up by the
person that I was trying to communicate with.

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Yeah.

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But, you know, having the golden bear, you
know, as on your business card, I mean, you

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know, talk about opening doors.

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Yeah.

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That was the first step, but, you know, really
getting to know the people, getting to know the

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projects, the lay of the land, walking the, you
know, walking the earth, if you will, to make

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sure that who you're dealing with, the projects
you're looking at, what the market potential

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is, added to Mr.

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Nicklaus's bucket, right, and did not take away
from his brand.

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And so, yep, that's a, you know, I yeah.

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It's a tremendous responsibility that, you
know, I took obviously very seriously, and I

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passed that on to, you know, my eventual
clients that, you know, I negotiated 20-year

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agreements with.

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You're I mean, you're talking about a long-term
marriage here.

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So you've got to make sure that you've got the
right people that are funding the project, that

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are going to be behind the project for the long
haul, and then working with them to design, to

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develop, to create that experience and hiring
people that didn't work for me, that didn't

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work for the client.

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Every day they put that shirt on, that hat on,
they represented Mr.

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Nicklaus.

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And yeah.

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I was working with Jack, by the way.

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I don't mean to interrupt you, but you're
enticing me here with talking about all of

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this.

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I'm like, how was the Golden Bear?

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Well, you know, Golden Bear is like every one
of us.

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You know?

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We all have good days, and we have bad days.

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And, you know, I was told by Jack early on that
you don't want a phone call from me.

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That means I've maybe made a mistake somewhere.

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So as long as, yeah, he put the trust in our
organization to represent his brand and, yep, I

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would report in.

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I would see Jack.

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I would fly into Florida and see him in the
office from time to time.

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I would have the luxury of kind of melding
design projects with an academy project to

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being able to be on the ground with Jack and
really show off what we were doing in his name.

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Yep.

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And, yeah, that part of it was very gratifying
because if you think about the brand, the

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academies were the only thing that touched the
customer.

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You can have 400 golf courses around the world.

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You can have ice cream.

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You can have shirts.

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You can have golf clubs.

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But at the end of the day, the only person
touching the golfer is a golf instructor.

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That's good boys.

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So we took that as our responsibility, our
mantra as, yep.

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I think it's an overused term now, but, yeah.

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Yeah, growing the game in these developing
countries where golf is, you know, not what it

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is in America, not what it is in the UK or
Scotland, knowing that you're going in and

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putting an academy in Guam or Jakarta, yeah, or
Tsingtao, of all places.

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I mean, yeah, even outside of Sao Paulo.

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Yeah.

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golf instruction in many of these markets never
existed.

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And when you come in with a brand like Nicklaus
and the facilities that we were able to design

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and have built and outfitted and bring in the
expat pros to teach Jack's philosophy, and

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again, represent Mr.

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Nicklaus, kinda mean what you know, what a
blast.

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A lot of fun, but I gotta imagine there's some
complexity there.

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Right?

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Not working in the United States and bringing
these new academies to these different markets.

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What are some glaring differences between kinda
setting something up here domestically versus

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going international like that?

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Well, when we would design coaching studios, we
would provide the architects and the engineers

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with our specifications.

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And, you know, you would constantly be on the
phone or email, you know, ensuring that these

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specifications were being adhered to and being,
yeah, being guaranteed.

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No problem.

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Don't worry, Mr.

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Simons.

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Don't worry, Mr.

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Simons.

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We've got it.

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And, you know, Qingdao is a perfect example.

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Yeah.

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Fly in to, you know, back in those days,
install the equipment, put in the high-speed

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cameras and the pressure mat and the launch
monitors and the computers.

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And instead of having a 3-inch conduit, you had
a 1 and a half inch conduit.

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You can't feed cables through that size
conduit.

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And, you know, just looking at them going, you
know, you have to tear out the concrete.

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We have to tear out the walls.

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We have to start over again.

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And,

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That's gotta be a tough conversation.

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That's a it's a tough conversation, because
sometimes there are language differences.

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My Chinese is not very good.

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My Korean is not very good.

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I figured out early on, don't try.

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All you're going to do is butcher and offend,
so make sure you have a translator wherever you

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go.

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But, yeah, tough conversation to say.

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Yep.

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We, you know, we've gotta start over again.

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Imagine being the interpreter.

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You're telling them what to say, and then they
gotta relay the tough message.

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They've gotta relay the tough message, and you
have to, you know, you have to keep that, you

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know, that face on, if you will.

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And and, you know, that's what they call it,
saving face in Asia.

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You know, you have to maintain your, you know,
your confidence and not look like a jerk, while

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ensuring that they understand in a polite way
they made a mistake.

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It's not my fault.

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It's your expense.

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And, I guess I will be back in two weeks, and
we'll start over again.

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So jump on a plane and, you know, come back to
the States and, do it all over again.

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That's incredible.

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00:14:51,569 --> 00:14:52,529
Tell me a little bit.

219
00:14:52,529 --> 00:14:56,705
So moving beyond the Nicklaus brand, what are
some recent projects that you've been working

220
00:14:56,705 --> 00:14:57,205
on?

221
00:14:58,144 --> 00:14:58,545
Yeah.

222
00:14:58,545 --> 00:14:59,665
We've been, Yeah.

223
00:14:59,665 --> 00:15:04,785
And I'm I'm not at liberty to announce, but we
have a, you know, I was contracted to put

224
00:15:04,785 --> 00:15:07,445
together a branded academy in Vietnam.

225
00:15:08,750 --> 00:15:09,149
Yep.

226
00:15:09,149 --> 00:15:10,690
So okay.

227
00:15:10,750 --> 00:15:17,809
They give me a list of, you know, top 10 names
that, yeah, are recognizable to them.

228
00:15:19,629 --> 00:15:28,875
And my job is to go out and, yep, negotiate
with a, yeah, with a high-level well-known

229
00:15:28,875 --> 00:15:35,134
instructor that has the interest in expanding
their brand in Vietnam.

230
00:15:37,320 --> 00:15:37,559
Yeah.

231
00:15:37,559 --> 00:15:42,620
Interesting enough, I just, you know, got off
the phone before we got on and, you know, in

232
00:15:42,759 --> 00:15:43,899
talks in India.

233
00:15:45,720 --> 00:15:55,184
You know, looking at how you can, you know, put
together golf projects to, you know, introduce

234
00:15:55,184 --> 00:16:00,564
the game to more and more people because in
India, land is very difficult to put together.

235
00:16:01,424 --> 00:16:01,745
Yeah.

236
00:16:01,745 --> 00:16:06,725
Every literally every citizen in India, I
swear, owns a piece of land.

237
00:16:07,769 --> 00:16:15,370
And, you know, getting, you know, 30 or 40 or
50 landowners to agree to yeah.

238
00:16:15,370 --> 00:16:23,254
Or more to put together a golf course is almost
impossible, which is why growing, yeah, golf

239
00:16:23,254 --> 00:16:26,875
course development is tough in India, not to
mention water.

240
00:16:27,495 --> 00:16:29,414
So that's where yeah.

241
00:16:29,414 --> 00:16:32,454
How do you put together innovative driving
ranges?

242
00:16:32,454 --> 00:16:34,714
How do you put together short courses?

243
00:16:36,330 --> 00:16:37,769
You know, it could be three holes.

244
00:16:37,769 --> 00:16:38,889
It could be six holes.

245
00:16:38,889 --> 00:16:39,929
It could be 12 holes.

246
00:16:39,929 --> 00:16:40,889
It could be nine.

247
00:16:40,889 --> 00:16:41,870
It doesn't matter.

248
00:16:42,649 --> 00:16:49,289
How do you, you know, how do you assemble
enough land and bring together a creative golf

249
00:16:49,289 --> 00:16:49,789
experience?

250
00:16:51,164 --> 00:16:55,664
Because at the end of the day, you know, I'm
all about, you know, what is the experience?

251
00:16:55,804 --> 00:16:58,384
What is the customer's experience?

252
00:16:58,524 --> 00:17:00,225
What is the golfer's experience?

253
00:17:01,164 --> 00:17:05,984
And, you know, whether it's a Nicklaus brand or
somebody else's brand or nobody's brand.

254
00:17:07,319 --> 00:17:07,640
Yeah.

255
00:17:07,640 --> 00:17:08,779
What is your experience?

256
00:17:09,000 --> 00:17:13,500
That's why you come back a second time, a third
time, a fourth time.

257
00:17:14,039 --> 00:17:18,140
Great marketing, great design, will get you
there once.

258
00:17:18,680 --> 00:17:26,484
But if your experience is crappy, why would you
come back and spend your time and spend your

259
00:17:26,484 --> 00:17:26,984
money?

260
00:17:27,444 --> 00:17:35,125
And I think that's where a lot of projects, not
just golf, but a lot of projects fall short is

261
00:17:35,125 --> 00:17:40,559
they don't look at the end consumer who, you
know, who are we designing for?

262
00:17:41,340 --> 00:17:47,820
And if we can't achieve that, poof, you know,
we've wasted a whole lot of time and money to

263
00:17:47,820 --> 00:17:50,240
build the Taj Mahal that nobody wants.

264
00:17:51,805 --> 00:17:53,025
That's really interesting.

265
00:17:53,244 --> 00:17:59,424
And just that dynamic that you just mentioned,
and it sounds like I mean, especially bringing

266
00:17:59,644 --> 00:18:05,460
golf courses over to, let's say, India sounds
not only complicated and complex, but at the

267
00:18:05,460 --> 00:18:08,980
same time like it's kind of a disruptor within
that market.

268
00:18:08,980 --> 00:18:12,900
So now we got to dive into the hot topic which
is LIV Golf.

269
00:18:12,900 --> 00:18:20,164
I mean it has been the—and we're just gonna get
right into it because, really working with

270
00:18:20,164 --> 00:18:26,884
disruptors and bringing to new markets and so
forth, how do you think LIV Golf is or how do

271
00:18:26,884 --> 00:18:29,545
you see them as a disruptor in the market?

272
00:18:29,924 --> 00:18:33,065
And ultimately, do you think it's good for the
game?

273
00:18:34,649 --> 00:18:43,210
Well, yeah, in I think in the traditional
sense, especially with the PGA Tour, yeah.

274
00:18:43,210 --> 00:18:45,869
You know, for sure, LIV is a disruptor.

275
00:18:47,444 --> 00:18:53,765
If you go to Bangkok, Thailand to a LIV event,
you're not disrupting anything.

276
00:18:53,765 --> 00:18:59,224
You're bringing the best players in the world
to your country.

277
00:18:59,365 --> 00:19:05,109
They don't care if it's 54 holes, a shotgun,
you know, music, whatever.

278
00:19:05,490 --> 00:19:12,549
They're having the opportunities that the PGA
Tour would never give them by traveling to,

279
00:19:13,089 --> 00:19:20,464
yeah, to traveling to Thailand or bringing,
yeah, a major tour with big stars back to

280
00:19:20,464 --> 00:19:20,964
Australia.

281
00:19:23,024 --> 00:19:24,325
So yes.

282
00:19:24,865 --> 00:19:25,184
Yeah.

283
00:19:25,184 --> 00:19:26,484
Are they going to Chicago?

284
00:19:26,704 --> 00:19:28,544
Are big crowds gonna show up?

285
00:19:28,544 --> 00:19:29,744
You know, who knows?

286
00:19:29,744 --> 00:19:31,125
Maybe, maybe not.

287
00:19:32,099 --> 00:19:35,880
Not everybody is into their model and their
presentation.

288
00:19:36,980 --> 00:19:45,144
But outside of, you know, the protected borders
of the United States, yeah, LIV is, you know,

289
00:19:45,144 --> 00:19:50,684
LIV is making a difference in exposing the game
of golf.

290
00:19:51,065 --> 00:19:52,285
Is it growing it?

291
00:19:52,985 --> 00:19:53,545
I don't know.

292
00:19:53,545 --> 00:19:59,679
That's up to, you know, that's up to, I guess,
people like me and others that are developing

293
00:19:59,980 --> 00:20:07,179
projects that reach the masses, but they're
exposing the game of golf and, you know, to

294
00:20:07,419 --> 00:20:12,625
show up and, you know, see Jon Rahm, to see
Phil Mickelson.

295
00:20:15,164 --> 00:20:15,484
Hell.

296
00:20:15,484 --> 00:20:19,085
I mean, if I was in Thailand, I would buy a
ticket and go see it.

297
00:20:19,085 --> 00:20:19,585
Right?

298
00:20:20,365 --> 00:20:23,025
Because you would not ever have that
opportunity.

299
00:20:23,164 --> 00:20:26,279
So for that reason, sure.

300
00:20:26,339 --> 00:20:33,720
You know, it is it's exposing masses, millions
and millions of people to the game of golf.

301
00:20:33,940 --> 00:20:37,700
I think you raise a really good point with the
international aspect because outside of the

302
00:20:37,700 --> 00:20:44,315
United States, I mean, we get so often, and
this was kind of an awakening for me as well as

303
00:20:44,315 --> 00:20:51,994
I say this, around the fact that especially
when I started interacting on Twitter or X, and

304
00:20:51,994 --> 00:20:57,000
all of a sudden, you start getting these
international opinions and you start to see

305
00:20:57,000 --> 00:21:02,920
kind of how, you know, a lot of people are
against the PGA Tour from international areas,

306
00:21:02,920 --> 00:21:07,259
and it tends to be Australia, tends to be the
UK a little bit.

307
00:21:07,640 --> 00:21:12,515
And it's really interesting to have this
dynamic to where people within the United

308
00:21:12,515 --> 00:21:15,955
States, a lot of them are pro-PGA Tour and
don't want LIV.

309
00:21:16,434 --> 00:21:20,994
Granted, there's certainly people within the
United States that like LIV Golf and so forth.

310
00:21:20,994 --> 00:21:26,420
I've always played a neutral; I've always been
a neutral party around it because I just don't

311
00:21:26,420 --> 00:21:31,460
take the politics as a part of the argument,
and if you remove that, you just focus in on

312
00:21:31,460 --> 00:21:39,075
the golfers, then you tend to have more of a
neutral opinion towards LIV Golf in particular.

313
00:21:39,295 --> 00:21:44,894
But again, going back to the international
aspect and how it's exposing the game and it's

314
00:21:44,894 --> 00:21:49,855
bringing the game to these different areas
internationally and becoming a little bit of a

315
00:21:49,855 --> 00:21:50,835
global tour.

316
00:21:50,975 --> 00:21:58,840
But do you think that with it being more on the
global aspect, and them talking about this and

317
00:21:58,840 --> 00:22:04,519
bringing these players over and exposing them
to these new areas, that it should have more of

318
00:22:04,519 --> 00:22:10,375
an international focus than even what it has
today, where still we've got multiple

319
00:22:10,434 --> 00:22:14,535
tournaments throughout the year taking place
here in the United States?

320
00:22:16,355 --> 00:22:16,595
Yeah.

321
00:22:16,595 --> 00:22:24,690
I mean, you know, LIV has to make a mark in the
States to be, you know, whatever successful is

322
00:22:24,690 --> 00:22:25,349
to them.

323
00:22:25,890 --> 00:22:26,210
Right?

324
00:22:26,210 --> 00:22:29,109
I mean, you have to have the number one media
market.

325
00:22:30,450 --> 00:22:36,884
You have to have that exposure or I'm not so
sure the ultimate business model works,

326
00:22:38,164 --> 00:22:39,545
whatever that may be.

327
00:22:40,404 --> 00:22:46,565
But, you know, not only do you see, you know,
like, the excitement of a LIV tournament coming

328
00:22:46,565 --> 00:22:56,139
to these countries in these areas, you also see
players that are on LIV that are no longer able

329
00:22:56,139 --> 00:23:04,299
to play PGA Tour events, they can play DP Tour
events to get their world points so they can

330
00:23:04,299 --> 00:23:05,599
qualify for majors.

331
00:23:06,585 --> 00:23:12,345
And so all of a sudden, you've got, again,
world-class players that are playing, you know,

332
00:23:12,345 --> 00:23:17,085
Asian Tour events, whoever sanctioning whatever
to get points.

333
00:23:17,545 --> 00:23:17,865
Yeah.

334
00:23:17,865 --> 00:23:24,759
Now you've got, you know, the Abraham Ancers of
the world playing events that you never would

335
00:23:24,759 --> 00:23:25,819
have seen before.

336
00:23:25,960 --> 00:23:34,115
So the downstream positive effect of LIV, you
know, is, you know, I think it's also being

337
00:23:34,255 --> 00:23:40,914
underappreciated by, and God bless their souls,
these players.

338
00:23:41,134 --> 00:23:42,674
Yes, they signed on.

339
00:23:43,215 --> 00:23:45,154
They knew what they were signing for.

340
00:23:45,535 --> 00:23:47,875
They certainly cashed the checks.

341
00:23:49,180 --> 00:23:49,420
Yeah.

342
00:23:49,420 --> 00:23:54,860
But they're still, I mean, they're out there
chasing their world ranking points to get into

343
00:23:54,860 --> 00:24:00,779
majors and, you know, knock on wood, you know,
one of these days, you know, allowed to play

344
00:24:00,779 --> 00:24:01,545
Ryder Cup.

345
00:24:02,984 --> 00:24:04,585
That certainly would be interesting.

346
00:24:04,585 --> 00:24:09,144
I know a lot of people have talked about, we'd
love to see a Ryder Cup set up between LIV

347
00:24:09,144 --> 00:24:10,845
players and PGA Tour players.

348
00:24:10,904 --> 00:24:15,545
So there's that aspect too that maybe some
point down the road, we get something a little

349
00:24:15,545 --> 00:24:16,265
bit like that.

350
00:24:16,265 --> 00:24:22,440
But just to have somebody, and I know Keegan
Bradley as the captain of the U.S.

351
00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:25,799
Ryder Cup team for 2025 said, I want the best
players in the world.

352
00:24:25,799 --> 00:24:28,619
I don't want it just to be PGA Tour players.

353
00:24:28,804 --> 00:24:34,085
So it sounds like that opens up the door once
again to a Brooks Koepka, to ultimately a

354
00:24:34,085 --> 00:24:36,265
Bryson DeChambeau potentially.

355
00:24:36,484 --> 00:24:40,585
So that'll be interesting to see how that
dynamic all takes place.

356
00:24:40,644 --> 00:24:46,580
But you did raise a good point around the DP
World Tour and how, you know, players that you

357
00:24:46,580 --> 00:24:50,980
normally wouldn't see playing in those events
are starting to play in those events because

358
00:24:50,980 --> 00:24:53,240
they need official world golf rankings.

359
00:24:53,380 --> 00:24:57,924
I don't want to go so far into the weeds with
the official world golf rankings because that

360
00:24:57,924 --> 00:25:02,025
is we could have an hour-long conversation just
around that alone.

361
00:25:02,644 --> 00:25:07,605
But it's kind of a cause and effect to where,
you know, they aren't getting the official

362
00:25:07,605 --> 00:25:13,630
World Golf Ranking points from the LIV Golf
circuit, and now they're going to have to chase

363
00:25:13,630 --> 00:25:18,049
those points and continue to get those through
the DP World Tour.

364
00:25:18,109 --> 00:25:23,329
So, ultimately, do you think it's been a
positive for the DP World Tour?

365
00:25:25,884 --> 00:25:35,325
I think live well, yes and no because I mean,
there's some that, you know, that were, I'll

366
00:25:35,325 --> 00:25:35,965
just cut names.

367
00:25:35,965 --> 00:25:37,565
They're European Tour players.

368
00:25:37,565 --> 00:25:39,359
It's called DP World Tour.

369
00:25:39,599 --> 00:25:45,460
You know, the Lee Westwoods and the Sergios of
the world, they got banished unless they paid,

370
00:25:46,160 --> 00:25:49,059
you know, a fine to come back.

371
00:25:50,000 --> 00:25:51,119
Can they afford it?

372
00:25:51,119 --> 00:25:51,359
Yeah.

373
00:25:51,359 --> 00:25:54,144
So in principle, it's really guys.

374
00:25:54,365 --> 00:25:56,044
But, yeah.

375
00:25:56,044 --> 00:26:00,845
So I don't think that certainly, that did not
help the DP World Tour because they lost some

376
00:26:00,845 --> 00:26:04,365
real mainstays, you know, the Lee Westwoods of
the world.

377
00:26:04,365 --> 00:26:12,019
I mean, yeah, in the UK and in Europe, I mean,
and Sergio, I mean, they are they were they

378
00:26:12,019 --> 00:26:13,079
were that tour.

379
00:26:13,940 --> 00:26:16,900
So it hurt in that aspect, but you're right.

380
00:26:16,900 --> 00:26:22,805
Being able to see those that, you know, that
want to qualify through the majors by the

381
00:26:22,805 --> 00:26:27,545
points, then, yes, there is a benefit from LIV.

382
00:26:28,404 --> 00:26:33,720
Now with the rivalry between LIV and the PGA
Tour, what impact do you see this having on

383
00:26:33,720 --> 00:26:38,759
player decisions, sponsorship deals, and the
overall structure of professional golf moving

384
00:26:38,759 --> 00:26:39,259
forward?

385
00:26:40,759 --> 00:26:41,259
Oof.

386
00:26:42,440 --> 00:26:42,680
Kind

387
00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:43,720
of a loaded question there.

388
00:26:43,720 --> 00:26:44,380
I know.

389
00:26:44,680 --> 00:26:48,380
Loaded question on one that I wish would be
resolved yesterday.

390
00:26:48,734 --> 00:26:51,694
You know, yeah.

391
00:26:51,694 --> 00:26:54,494
But at least again, I'm, you know, I'm one man.

392
00:26:54,494 --> 00:26:59,474
I have an opinion, and I, you know, I live in
the gray zone as I call it.

393
00:26:59,694 --> 00:27:00,015
You know?

394
00:27:00,015 --> 00:27:04,650
But, yeah, I, for one, I'm tired of I'm tired
of listening about the money.

395
00:27:05,829 --> 00:27:11,509
You know, on the tour side, LIV, it kinda gets
brushed into the end of the rug a little bit

396
00:27:11,509 --> 00:27:14,630
now, just because not that many people follow.

397
00:27:14,630 --> 00:27:19,184
But, yeah, I'm tired about I'm tired about
hearing about the massive amounts of money

398
00:27:19,184 --> 00:27:20,325
they're playing for.

399
00:27:21,424 --> 00:27:24,865
I'm tired of, you know, the signature events.

400
00:27:24,865 --> 00:27:33,899
I don't think they are doing, you know, the
ecosystem any favors by, you know, having 60

401
00:27:34,679 --> 00:27:39,659
limited field events for $20 million purses,
$25 million purses.

402
00:27:39,799 --> 00:27:43,835
That's LIV without a shotgun start in 54 holes.

403
00:27:45,495 --> 00:27:45,894
Yep.

404
00:27:45,894 --> 00:27:46,394
Yep.

405
00:27:46,455 --> 00:27:53,835
The, you know, the equipment sponsors, the
clothing sponsors, you know, the difficult

406
00:27:53,894 --> 00:27:59,580
position they were put into when their players
signed with LIV.

407
00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:05,080
You know, you see, you know, a lot of guys were
forced to become free agents, which isn't

408
00:28:05,080 --> 00:28:06,779
necessarily always a bad thing.

409
00:28:07,559 --> 00:28:07,799
Yeah.

410
00:28:07,799 --> 00:28:12,484
But several long-time, you know, long-term
relationships because of that decision.

411
00:28:14,005 --> 00:28:19,845
You know, why would an equipment manufacturer,
yeah, go, you know, and cut them off?

412
00:28:19,845 --> 00:28:23,924
You know, that's obviously another discussion
that could take another hour.

413
00:28:23,924 --> 00:28:33,599
But, yeah, going forward, I'd love to see how
real, you know, people can come to the table

414
00:28:33,740 --> 00:28:41,555
and, you know, come up with a, you know, come
up with a way that benefits the game, not

415
00:28:41,555 --> 00:28:45,575
benefits one tour or the other organization or
whatever they're called.

416
00:28:46,035 --> 00:28:51,015
You know, that benefits the game, you know,
that's why the majors are so valuable now

417
00:28:51,620 --> 00:28:57,460
because you do know, if people could get their
world rankings, you know, you see the best

418
00:28:57,460 --> 00:29:00,980
players in the world playing four times a year.

419
00:29:00,980 --> 00:29:09,625
That's why if people put differences aside, the
Ryder Cups, yep, are incredibly valuable.

420
00:29:10,484 --> 00:29:16,984
You know, the Olympics, you know, you know, is,
you know, incredibly valuable because you see

421
00:29:17,125 --> 00:29:21,329
even though those are kinda weird fields, how
they come together, but, know, the best players

422
00:29:21,329 --> 00:29:27,170
in the world have an opportunity to compete as
they should, and that's what I would love to

423
00:29:27,170 --> 00:29:30,789
see, yeah, eventually come together.

424
00:29:31,809 --> 00:29:36,634
I'm gonna piggyback off of something that you
did say with the ecosystem of the PGA Tour for

425
00:29:36,634 --> 00:29:41,434
instance with these signature series events
because you look at some of these players that

426
00:29:41,434 --> 00:29:47,214
have been either out there for a long period of
time or those that are just trying to break in

427
00:29:47,595 --> 00:29:53,160
to the PGA Tour system and are full-time
members and so forth, but they don't get to

428
00:29:53,160 --> 00:29:56,759
play in enough meaningful events.

429
00:29:56,759 --> 00:30:01,320
So I look at somebody like Kevin Streelman, for
instance, who wasn't able to play the Travelers

430
00:30:01,320 --> 00:30:05,740
this year even though he's a past champion
because it was a signature series event.

431
00:30:05,984 --> 00:30:13,285
Now all of a sudden because we would always get
those guys that, you know, one tournament that

432
00:30:13,585 --> 00:30:19,045
they just break through at, and all of a sudden
they have a big win that kind of projects them

433
00:30:19,289 --> 00:30:21,869
forward and keeps them on tour and so forth.

434
00:30:22,009 --> 00:30:27,789
You haven't really been able to see that per se
because of these signature series events.

435
00:30:28,250 --> 00:30:34,484
So I do want to kind of reask again to you, is
this a good thing for the PGA Tour?

436
00:30:34,484 --> 00:30:38,565
I know you mentioned that you don't like the
signature series events, but the PGA Tour as a

437
00:30:38,565 --> 00:30:44,825
whole, is it a positive that it's shrinking
down to just the big names, so to speak, that

438
00:30:45,044 --> 00:30:49,250
people are able to get a little bit more
attached to?

439
00:30:49,869 --> 00:30:56,029
Or and this is a tough question because it
kinda comes down to, do you see it as a

440
00:30:56,029 --> 00:30:58,690
positive that the PGA Tour is technically
shrinking?

441
00:31:01,785 --> 00:31:04,204
I don't I don't see it as a positive.

442
00:31:04,265 --> 00:31:09,724
I mean, yeah, I feel for the non-signature
events.

443
00:31:10,825 --> 00:31:16,250
The sponsors that are still putting up
multimillion-dollar sponsorship fees, and

444
00:31:17,589 --> 00:31:21,029
because they're not a signature event, they're
not getting top players.

445
00:31:21,269 --> 00:31:21,769
Yeah.

446
00:31:22,150 --> 00:31:23,109
To come to them.

447
00:31:23,109 --> 00:31:31,634
And so for your $20 million investment or $35
million investment to be a title sponsor, you

448
00:31:31,634 --> 00:31:36,015
know, you're not getting, you know, you're not
getting that draw, if you will.

449
00:31:37,434 --> 00:31:37,835
Yeah.

450
00:31:37,835 --> 00:31:38,234
Yeah.

451
00:31:38,234 --> 00:31:43,595
The players that are playing in those, I mean,
god I mean, don't we all wish we were that

452
00:31:43,595 --> 00:31:44,069
good?

453
00:31:45,909 --> 00:31:45,990
Yeah.

454
00:31:45,990 --> 00:31:47,130
So so I mean yeah.

455
00:31:47,349 --> 00:31:53,529
It's it's a shame that they're being discounted
because they're not part of this elite group.

456
00:31:54,869 --> 00:32:03,705
But, no, I love watching, you know, PGA Tour
events, when sure.

457
00:32:03,705 --> 00:32:11,705
You you you had five or six of the top players
on the leaderboard, but you also had three or

458
00:32:11,705 --> 00:32:12,345
four guys.

459
00:32:12,345 --> 00:32:14,839
You're going, who the hell are they?

460
00:32:14,839 --> 00:32:18,619
And next thing you know, they win or take a
second.

461
00:32:19,159 --> 00:32:22,299
And, you know, the next year, they're the
studs.

462
00:32:22,599 --> 00:32:26,700
They're the ones that have come out of, quote,
unquote, nowhere.

463
00:32:27,525 --> 00:32:27,845
Yeah.

464
00:32:27,845 --> 00:32:28,724
Where does it yeah.

465
00:32:28,724 --> 00:32:34,984
How does the Scottie Schefflers of the world
get an opportunity to, you know, get into that

466
00:32:35,205 --> 00:32:40,184
circuit if they can't get enough points to
yeah.

467
00:32:40,609 --> 00:32:41,109
Yep.

468
00:32:41,330 --> 00:32:43,350
Through through one signature event.

469
00:32:43,650 --> 00:32:47,490
I'm so glad that you said somebody like Scottie
Scheffler because he didn't break through right

470
00:32:47,490 --> 00:32:47,890
away.

471
00:32:47,890 --> 00:32:48,210
Right?

472
00:32:48,210 --> 00:32:53,250
So he was somebody that was kinda around,
around, around, and then finally had his big

473
00:32:53,250 --> 00:32:53,750
breakthrough.

474
00:32:54,575 --> 00:32:58,654
And then just all of a sudden the floodgates
open, and he started winning a lot.

475
00:32:58,654 --> 00:33:04,355
And then obviously, we've seen over the past
couple years what Scottie Scheffler has become,

476
00:33:04,734 --> 00:33:06,654
but that wasn't him in the early days.

477
00:33:06,654 --> 00:33:08,035
He needed some time.

478
00:33:08,039 --> 00:33:10,920
And I even go back to, you know, like Major
League Baseball.

479
00:33:10,920 --> 00:33:15,720
I'm a huge Yankees fan, and you look at
somebody like Nestor Cortes who, as a starting

480
00:33:15,720 --> 00:33:21,640
pitcher for the New York Yankees, it took him a
really long time in the minor leagues and so

481
00:33:21,640 --> 00:33:24,095
forth before he really found who he was.

482
00:33:24,095 --> 00:33:26,095
Sometimes it takes 10, 15 years.

483
00:33:26,095 --> 00:33:33,214
Sometimes golfers don't reach their their kinda
peak of their golf game until their early to

484
00:33:34,170 --> 00:33:38,970
So it's like, man, what are we doing to help
develop these players?

485
00:33:38,970 --> 00:33:44,269
And I know there's the Korn Ferry Tour, but the
Korn Ferry Tour just doesn't have that same

486
00:33:44,809 --> 00:33:46,970
aspect to it that the PGA Tour does.

487
00:33:46,970 --> 00:33:53,085
They don't play as good of golf courses or as
long of golf courses, and it becomes oftentimes

488
00:33:53,085 --> 00:33:58,605
where you just have to shoot an extremely low
number on the Korn Ferry Tour in order to

489
00:33:58,605 --> 00:34:03,809
become something, and that's not what ends up
winning a lot of these major championships.

490
00:34:04,109 --> 00:34:11,250
It's not often the guys that can just go lights
out and make 30 birdies in a tournament.

491
00:34:11,710 --> 00:34:31,449
It's guys that can grind and, you know, it's
not, you know, having the best players in the

492
00:34:31,449 --> 00:34:38,889
world competing at the same tournaments versus
having what the PGA Tour always was, which is a

493
00:34:38,889 --> 00:34:41,710
great platform, and you have those breakthrough
stories.

494
00:34:42,035 --> 00:34:43,155
And I absolutely love that.

495
00:34:43,155 --> 00:34:47,795
I mean, one of the things that we are spoiled
with right now is that we still do have a

496
00:34:47,795 --> 00:34:52,454
couple young guys that have been able to break
through, like a Nick Dunlap, like a Ludvig

497
00:34:52,515 --> 00:34:53,015
Åberg.

498
00:34:53,235 --> 00:34:58,320
And I know the tour is trying to do some of
those things to kind of propel those, the top

499
00:34:58,320 --> 00:35:05,360
1%, in collegiate golf, for instance, to give
them those opportunities without having to go

500
00:35:05,360 --> 00:35:06,239
to Q School.

501
00:35:06,239 --> 00:35:08,800
And so there's some aspects that they're adding
back.

502
00:35:08,800 --> 00:35:17,144
I just don't see long term how this is going to
benefit the tour as a whole and allow some of

503
00:35:17,144 --> 00:35:24,530
these guys to kind of work their way up to a
point to where they start to be really what

504
00:35:24,530 --> 00:35:26,289
they could be in the game of golf.

505
00:35:26,289 --> 00:35:28,550
So I'm with you around that entirely.

506
00:35:28,849 --> 00:35:34,369
Now I do want to move a little bit into the
industry impacts and the future predictions

507
00:35:34,369 --> 00:35:39,364
that you have around the game of golf and how
this is impacting the industry.

508
00:35:39,585 --> 00:35:45,184
So given everything happening between LIV Golf
and the PGA Tour, where do you see, as a

509
00:35:45,184 --> 00:35:48,965
visionary, heading over the next five to ten
years?

510
00:35:50,799 --> 00:35:51,859
Oh, boy.

511
00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:54,500
And the industry specifically, I should say.

512
00:35:54,639 --> 00:35:55,619
What was that?

513
00:35:55,839 --> 00:35:56,480
The industry.

514
00:35:56,480 --> 00:35:58,260
So the golf industry specifically.

515
00:35:59,119 --> 00:35:59,599
Well, yeah.

516
00:35:59,599 --> 00:36:04,695
The, yeah, the golf industry, you know, you're
you're going to see, you know, and it's it's

517
00:36:04,695 --> 00:36:05,255
coming up.

518
00:36:05,255 --> 00:36:06,855
I mean, there's a crossroads here.

519
00:36:06,855 --> 00:36:07,355
Right?

520
00:36:07,974 --> 00:36:10,555
That we're going to limit ball flight.

521
00:36:12,375 --> 00:36:12,875
Right?

522
00:36:13,494 --> 00:36:14,235
That's true.

523
00:36:14,295 --> 00:36:14,795
Okay.

524
00:36:16,135 --> 00:36:22,610
You know, but unless they, you know, unless
they limit the driver, you know, they're just

525
00:36:22,769 --> 00:36:26,550
you know, the the, you know, the equipment guys
are gonna catch up.

526
00:36:26,849 --> 00:36:27,349
Yeah.

527
00:36:27,409 --> 00:36:29,190
And and they always have.

528
00:36:30,434 --> 00:36:35,015
You know, you you watch the you watch the
telecast and, you know, guys are hitting

529
00:36:35,015 --> 00:36:37,175
8-irons 210 yards.

530
00:36:38,195 --> 00:36:39,015
So true.

531
00:36:39,394 --> 00:36:39,894
Okay.

532
00:36:40,035 --> 00:36:44,775
You know, what's the, you know, what, you know,
what is that, you know, what does that mean?

533
00:36:45,239 --> 00:36:47,480
Well, I mean, they got their equipment dialed
in.

534
00:36:47,480 --> 00:36:49,800
They've got unbelievable conditions, right?

535
00:36:49,800 --> 00:36:51,559
I mean, you know, you know, they're playing
balls.

536
00:36:51,559 --> 00:36:52,860
They don't curve anymore.

537
00:36:53,079 --> 00:36:57,579
It's pretty, pretty tough to, you know, really
hit a snap hook at that level.

538
00:36:58,925 --> 00:36:59,085
Yeah.

539
00:36:59,085 --> 00:37:03,885
But their 8-iron loft setup may be the same as
my

540
00:37:04,764 --> 00:37:05,585
I don't know.

541
00:37:05,885 --> 00:37:06,284
Right?

542
00:37:06,284 --> 00:37:07,965
You know, so, you know, they say, oh, yeah.

543
00:37:07,965 --> 00:37:10,019
He's hitting an 8-iron 200 yards.

544
00:37:10,019 --> 00:37:11,619
You go out to the driving range.

545
00:37:11,619 --> 00:37:14,360
You go, well, why can't I hit an 8-iron 200
yards?

546
00:37:14,739 --> 00:37:15,380
I don't know.

547
00:37:15,380 --> 00:37:17,320
But, yeah, I digress there.

548
00:37:18,179 --> 00:37:20,099
So where's the industry going?

549
00:37:20,099 --> 00:37:25,094
I think it's, you know, I think the, I think
the rollback of the ball is going to be

550
00:37:25,714 --> 00:37:26,934
something to watch.

551
00:37:28,114 --> 00:37:33,335
You know, the equipment manufacturers, the ball
manufacturers obviously are not too excited

552
00:37:33,394 --> 00:37:34,135
about that.

553
00:37:34,369 --> 00:37:35,989
Oh, it's gotta be killing Titleist.

554
00:37:36,050 --> 00:37:42,690
I mean, they've got their stranglehold over the
golf ball side of golf, and they've got to

555
00:37:42,690 --> 00:37:44,530
rework all their golf balls.

556
00:37:44,530 --> 00:37:48,469
I mean, that's the main part of Titleist's
business if you ask me.

557
00:37:48,769 --> 00:37:55,375
So I, and I'm curious what you think in regards
to how damaging that could be to a manufacturer

558
00:37:55,515 --> 00:37:56,255
like Titleist.

559
00:37:57,114 --> 00:37:57,355
Yeah.

560
00:37:57,355 --> 00:37:58,555
I mean, yeah, I think, yeah.

561
00:37:58,555 --> 00:38:00,075
I, I, I don't know.

562
00:38:00,075 --> 00:38:04,820
I believe they've got engineers that are smart
enough to know, I mean, they've, they've

563
00:38:04,820 --> 00:38:06,679
already got the ball figured out.

564
00:38:06,900 --> 00:38:07,400
Yep.

565
00:38:07,539 --> 00:38:12,119
When they talk about dialing the ball back,
this is not, you know, this is not new news.

566
00:38:12,500 --> 00:38:15,800
You know, this discussion has been going on for
a long time.

567
00:38:16,974 --> 00:38:23,855
So you know that they've been planning, if you
will, worst-case scenario, we're going to have

568
00:38:23,855 --> 00:38:24,894
to dial the ball back.

569
00:38:24,894 --> 00:38:26,994
What is our ball going to look like?

570
00:38:27,135 --> 00:38:29,554
Titleist will still be the number one ball.

571
00:38:30,690 --> 00:38:31,090
Yeah.

572
00:38:31,090 --> 00:38:35,409
Callaway and TaylorMade will still be, yeah,
working their way there.

573
00:38:35,409 --> 00:38:41,750
Srixon and Bridgestone will still be playing in
the same sandbox as everybody.

574
00:38:41,809 --> 00:38:43,429
Everybody gets dialed back.

575
00:38:44,449 --> 00:38:44,949
Yes.

576
00:38:45,414 --> 00:38:46,154
You think it

577
00:38:46,295 --> 00:38:47,755
favors anybody, though?

578
00:38:49,815 --> 00:38:49,974
No.

579
00:38:49,974 --> 00:38:50,134
No.

580
00:38:50,134 --> 00:38:51,255
I don't think so.

581
00:38:51,255 --> 00:38:54,154
I mean, well, you know, a lot of it comes down
to marketing anyway.

582
00:38:54,454 --> 00:38:54,855
Sure.

583
00:38:54,855 --> 00:38:55,094
Right?

584
00:38:55,094 --> 00:39:00,074
You know, if you're a Titleist guy, you're
still gonna play a Titleist ball.

585
00:39:00,630 --> 00:39:01,029
You know?

586
00:39:01,029 --> 00:39:05,269
And the free agents, you know, they're gonna
look at, you know, either what performs best

587
00:39:05,269 --> 00:39:11,369
for them or maybe what the bonus schedule is as
they place well.

588
00:39:11,589 --> 00:39:11,989
You know?

589
00:39:11,989 --> 00:39:16,155
Who's gonna, you know, who's gonna pay them the
most money for playing their product even

590
00:39:16,155 --> 00:39:19,215
though they're not a, quote, unquote, top
endorser.

591
00:39:20,235 --> 00:39:25,695
You know, it hurts the little guys, that have
been working so hard and spending so much money

592
00:39:26,074 --> 00:39:30,255
to build a better product to compete with the
Titleists of the world.

593
00:39:31,130 --> 00:39:35,390
Those are the guys, I think, that are getting
punched in their teeth a little bit.

594
00:39:36,090 --> 00:39:38,969
The average player yeah.

595
00:39:38,969 --> 00:39:44,910
I've been out there long enough with launch
monitors before launch monitors even worked.

596
00:39:45,724 --> 00:39:49,105
And, you know, everybody thinks they hit it
285.

597
00:39:50,605 --> 00:39:50,844
Yeah.

598
00:39:50,844 --> 00:39:52,765
You put a launch monitor down.

599
00:39:52,765 --> 00:39:54,125
I mean, I've got a great story.

600
00:39:54,125 --> 00:39:57,585
You know, we put an academy at a Nicklaus
Academy of Pronghorn.

601
00:39:58,869 --> 00:40:01,829
And, you know, we hadn't even dialed everything
in yet.

602
00:40:01,829 --> 00:40:03,030
We had a launch monitor.

603
00:40:03,030 --> 00:40:08,789
Everything was starting to work, and you had
members, you know, really good members, that

604
00:40:08,789 --> 00:40:13,434
came down, and they're watching us going, what
is that?

605
00:40:13,434 --> 00:40:13,675
Hey.

606
00:40:13,675 --> 00:40:14,894
We hit some shots.

607
00:40:15,514 --> 00:40:19,855
And, you know, they get in there, and next
thing you know, we're having cocktails

608
00:40:19,994 --> 00:40:21,454
delivered down from the clubhouse.

609
00:40:22,635 --> 00:40:27,375
You know, but the boys are having a contest,
you know, how far they can hit their driver.

610
00:40:28,070 --> 00:40:33,670
And they were really disheartened to find out
that, you know, what they thought was 290 in

611
00:40:33,670 --> 00:40:34,809
reality was 245.

612
00:40:36,949 --> 00:40:37,929
And yeah.

613
00:40:38,230 --> 00:40:39,130
I love that.

614
00:40:39,429 --> 00:40:39,670
Yeah.

615
00:40:39,670 --> 00:40:44,074
And, you know, you go out to the range or you
go out to the golf course, you know, every day,

616
00:40:44,534 --> 00:40:49,355
and people's perception of how far they hit the
ball is not reality.

617
00:40:50,614 --> 00:40:56,739
And that's why, you know, the advancements of
launch monitors and making, you know, if you

618
00:40:56,739 --> 00:41:04,519
will, consumer launch monitors available that
give people a clue as to how short they are.

619
00:41:05,539 --> 00:41:05,940
Yeah.

620
00:41:05,940 --> 00:41:11,875
If the average player loses five yards, that's
not the that's not the that's not the end of

621
00:41:11,875 --> 00:41:12,855
the world, Joe.

622
00:41:15,875 --> 00:41:16,755
It's so true.

623
00:41:16,755 --> 00:41:22,530
And I just have to piggyback off of that
because I've had my experience as a vice

624
00:41:22,530 --> 00:41:28,630
president of sales and marketing for a golf
technology company, and, man, it just resonates

625
00:41:28,690 --> 00:41:32,849
when people would come into the golf simulator,
especially when golf simulators were trying to

626
00:41:32,849 --> 00:41:37,934
break the mold of being just a rich man's toy
to all of a sudden being like, no.

627
00:41:37,934 --> 00:41:44,175
This is a serious tool that you can use in your
home in order to practice and get better.

628
00:41:44,175 --> 00:41:51,469
Now we're to the point 10 years later to where,
yeah, that has become the conversation piece

629
00:41:51,769 --> 00:41:54,110
versus, you know, it's not accurate.

630
00:41:54,489 --> 00:41:56,670
This is a piece of junk, whatever.

631
00:41:56,890 --> 00:42:00,329
Like, it's just a video game for rich guys.

632
00:42:00,329 --> 00:42:06,174
So that resonates with me so hard because we
used to all the time go to the PGA Show in

633
00:42:06,174 --> 00:42:09,614
Orlando and have the simulator set up and
everything.

634
00:42:09,614 --> 00:42:14,755
And sure enough, you'd always get the guy
that's like, oh, I hit my driver 300 yards.

635
00:42:14,894 --> 00:42:17,714
Then they get up there and they hit a 235
carry.

636
00:42:17,775 --> 00:42:22,730
It ends up rolling out to, like, 245, and
they're like miffed.

637
00:42:23,110 --> 00:42:25,429
They're like, this isn't accurate at all.

638
00:42:25,429 --> 00:42:26,489
This thing's terrible.

639
00:42:26,630 --> 00:42:29,690
This thing doesn't know how far I hit my
driver.

640
00:42:29,989 --> 00:42:34,485
And it's just like you sit there and you're
like, guy, you just got out of your car.

641
00:42:34,724 --> 00:42:38,025
Like, you just walked up to the first golf
simulator you saw.

642
00:42:38,325 --> 00:42:44,425
And not only are you not warmed up at all, but
also you don't hit the ball that far.

643
00:42:44,644 --> 00:42:50,949
So that resonates with me so much so, because
there were just numerous conversations around

644
00:42:50,949 --> 00:42:51,269
that.

645
00:42:51,269 --> 00:42:54,389
So I'm really glad that you brought up that
aspect to it.

646
00:42:54,389 --> 00:43:00,309
But, yeah, I do wonder, like, do you think that
with the golf ball rollback in particular over

647
00:43:00,309 --> 00:43:05,805
these next 5, 10 years, that the right decision
was made to include the amateurs in that, or

648
00:43:05,805 --> 00:43:09,025
should it have just been around the
professional game?

649
00:43:09,805 --> 00:43:12,545
I think it should have just been around the
professional game.

650
00:43:14,045 --> 00:43:14,545
Yeah.

651
00:43:15,559 --> 00:43:17,579
Are we all playing the same equipment?

652
00:43:18,119 --> 00:43:18,760
You know?

653
00:43:18,760 --> 00:43:21,980
Is my tennis racket the same as Djokovic's?

654
00:43:23,000 --> 00:43:23,500
No.

655
00:43:23,559 --> 00:43:24,059
Yeah.

656
00:43:24,519 --> 00:43:29,795
Is, yeah, is, yeah, my kid's bat, now that I
have a kid that plays baseball, the same as

657
00:43:29,855 --> 00:43:30,734
Aaron Judge's bat?

658
00:43:30,734 --> 00:43:31,234
No.

659
00:43:32,175 --> 00:43:33,954
The pros have different equipment.

660
00:43:34,014 --> 00:43:34,574
They do.

661
00:43:34,574 --> 00:43:41,155
Why why why do we take this stance in this game
that we all have to play the same equipment?

662
00:43:41,454 --> 00:43:43,210
I mean, no.

663
00:43:43,349 --> 00:43:46,650
It it it I don't think it makes I don't think
it makes a difference.

664
00:43:48,309 --> 00:43:51,769
I think they should have left the ball for
amateurs.

665
00:43:52,549 --> 00:43:55,510
Remember what you you remember when hot drivers
came out.

666
00:43:55,510 --> 00:43:55,934
Right?

667
00:43:56,015 --> 00:43:56,594
Oh, yeah.

668
00:43:56,655 --> 00:43:58,094
Callaway had a hot driver.

669
00:43:58,094 --> 00:43:59,695
You know, you can't play this driver.

670
00:43:59,695 --> 00:44:00,994
You can't play that driver.

671
00:44:01,295 --> 00:44:05,775
And, you know, gee, you know, if you're in a
foursome and Jim shows up and, you know, he's

672
00:44:05,775 --> 00:44:09,769
got that Callaway that's on the, you know,
forbid list, oof.

673
00:44:09,769 --> 00:44:11,609
You know, gotta watch out for Jim.

674
00:44:11,609 --> 00:44:12,510
He's a cheater.

675
00:44:13,769 --> 00:44:14,089
Yep.

676
00:44:14,089 --> 00:44:14,650
Holy shit.

677
00:44:14,650 --> 00:44:15,289
What did he do?

678
00:44:15,289 --> 00:44:16,570
Hit it 3 yards further.

679
00:44:16,570 --> 00:44:16,889
Right?

680
00:44:16,889 --> 00:44:18,670
I mean, no.

681
00:44:19,210 --> 00:44:23,530
I mean, yeah, I think that, you know, let the
amateurs play.

682
00:44:23,530 --> 00:44:26,405
Let them again, you know, it's the experience.

683
00:44:27,184 --> 00:44:31,905
My whole thing and I wrote a story for a
publication in South Africa, an industry

684
00:44:31,905 --> 00:44:35,204
publication, and I'll release it here in the
States.

685
00:44:35,505 --> 00:44:43,119
But I wrote an article about I went to a
municipal facility in California on a site

686
00:44:43,119 --> 00:44:44,659
visit as a consultant.

687
00:44:46,880 --> 00:44:56,041
And, yeah, it was an 18-hole par 3, been around
since the '60s, if not the '50s, 1960s, 9-hole

688
00:44:56,041 --> 00:44:57,675
putt-putt course.

689
00:44:59,655 --> 00:45:02,635
Give them credit, a really pretty good driving
range.

690
00:45:04,135 --> 00:45:06,635
And people were just having fun.

691
00:45:07,859 --> 00:45:08,179
Yep.

692
00:45:08,179 --> 00:45:09,139
They'd show up.

693
00:45:09,139 --> 00:45:11,460
They'd pay a green fee, whatever it was.

694
00:45:11,460 --> 00:45:13,639
Some people carry their clubs in their hands.

695
00:45:14,420 --> 00:45:14,739
Yep.

696
00:45:14,739 --> 00:45:17,539
Some people had a big staff bag and a pull
cart.

697
00:45:17,539 --> 00:45:18,819
Some people kept scores.

698
00:45:18,819 --> 00:45:19,559
Some didn't.

699
00:45:19,744 --> 00:45:20,644
You had couples.

700
00:45:20,704 --> 00:45:21,925
You had families.

701
00:45:22,224 --> 00:45:25,765
You had, you know, guys playing a money game
for sure.

702
00:45:27,505 --> 00:45:29,285
They were just having fun.

703
00:45:30,304 --> 00:45:32,304
And all of a sudden, I go, wait a minute.

704
00:45:32,304 --> 00:45:35,099
You know, I keep talking about, you know, this
and that.

705
00:45:35,420 --> 00:45:40,400
Well, you know, you're talking about, you know,
being around the best golfers, the best clubs,

706
00:45:40,460 --> 00:45:44,000
the best resorts, the best academies you can
find.

707
00:45:44,860 --> 00:45:47,500
And I walked out of there going, shit.

708
00:45:47,500 --> 00:45:48,400
Excuse me.

709
00:45:48,460 --> 00:45:48,885
Yep.

710
00:45:49,045 --> 00:45:49,764
Oh, you're fine.

711
00:45:49,764 --> 00:45:52,164
This is an unfiltered golf podcast, Ted.

712
00:45:52,164 --> 00:45:53,545
You can swear all you want.

713
00:45:53,844 --> 00:45:54,244
Okay.

714
00:45:54,405 --> 00:45:56,105
Now, you know, you're about the floodgates.

715
00:45:56,324 --> 00:45:59,784
But I walked away going, you know, people are
just having fun.

716
00:46:00,885 --> 00:46:09,400
And if the industry can get out of their own
way, put their egos aside, and realize that to

717
00:46:09,780 --> 00:46:16,260
sustain the game, not grow the game, sustain
the game, we have to give people an opportunity

718
00:46:16,260 --> 00:46:17,800
to just go out and have fun.

719
00:46:19,694 --> 00:46:20,014
Yeah.

720
00:46:20,014 --> 00:46:24,414
There's nothing wrong with standing there at
the driving range for an hour and just hitting

721
00:46:24,414 --> 00:46:30,434
nothing but slices, you know, and bringing the
fence into play 90% of the time.

722
00:46:30,894 --> 00:46:32,114
They're having fun.

723
00:46:32,670 --> 00:46:37,730
If they get lucky and hit a straight one that
went 220, yep.

724
00:46:37,949 --> 00:46:39,550
That's the one shot again.

725
00:46:39,550 --> 00:46:41,869
What's the one shot that'll bring you back?

726
00:46:41,869 --> 00:46:42,369
Yeah.

727
00:46:42,909 --> 00:46:45,170
That's why I always tell golf courses.

728
00:46:45,230 --> 00:46:45,469
Yeah.

729
00:46:45,469 --> 00:46:49,855
If you want to do it right, make sure your No.

730
00:46:49,855 --> 00:46:58,994
1 tee ground is as pristine as you can possibly
get it, and your 9th or 18th green is perfect.

731
00:47:00,174 --> 00:47:01,375
That's what people remember.

732
00:47:01,375 --> 00:47:04,130
People will remember that green as they walked
off.

733
00:47:04,130 --> 00:47:09,730
If it's a piece of crap, they're gonna go,
yeah, that, you know, the golf course is a dog

734
00:47:09,730 --> 00:47:10,230
track.

735
00:47:11,570 --> 00:47:11,890
Yeah.

736
00:47:11,890 --> 00:47:17,269
If you walk off and if you tee off and there's
no grass, there's nothing on your first hole,

737
00:47:17,625 --> 00:47:20,844
your perception is this is not gonna be a good
day.

738
00:47:21,864 --> 00:47:22,184
Gosh.

739
00:47:22,184 --> 00:47:28,045
That's such a really good piece of advice to
anybody working on golf courses out there to

740
00:47:28,264 --> 00:47:32,344
make sure and I didn't even think about that,
but you're absolutely right because it sets

741
00:47:32,344 --> 00:47:36,650
your entire perception up for the rest of the
round from the 1st tee box.

742
00:47:36,949 --> 00:47:43,130
And then the 18th green, you're walking off,
and that's gonna be your last perception of

743
00:47:43,429 --> 00:47:44,890
what just took place.

744
00:47:45,110 --> 00:47:47,449
That's the last thing you're gonna remember, I
should say.

745
00:47:47,829 --> 00:47:53,644
So that's huge advice for anybody listening
that's in the golf course business, even as a

746
00:47:53,644 --> 00:47:58,864
greenskeeper and so forth that, yeah, make sure
that those are tidied up.

747
00:47:59,085 --> 00:48:04,710
Now you've worked so much internationally that
I do wanna ask you one other question around

748
00:48:04,710 --> 00:48:11,910
it, which do you see the global expansion of
golf continuing, or do you see that kinda

749
00:48:11,910 --> 00:48:15,735
constricting or how it might change in the
sport of golf?

750
00:48:17,494 --> 00:48:22,315
I think it's either country or region
dependent.

751
00:48:22,695 --> 00:48:23,195
Okay.

752
00:48:24,215 --> 00:48:24,695
Yep.

753
00:48:24,695 --> 00:48:31,969
And, you know, in the mature markets, UK,
Scotland, Ireland, Spain, to a certain extent,

754
00:48:32,349 --> 00:48:33,410
you know, they're mature.

755
00:48:33,710 --> 00:48:39,570
I think the golf industry like it is or can be
in the States, could be challenged.

756
00:48:41,630 --> 00:48:49,695
But when you go to India, you go to South
America, you go to China, Southeast Asia, the

757
00:48:49,695 --> 00:48:51,715
golf boom is real.

758
00:48:52,015 --> 00:48:52,515
Okay.

759
00:48:53,215 --> 00:48:54,255
You know, it is real.

760
00:48:54,255 --> 00:49:00,960
It's up to, you know, in the case of China,
it's up to the government to allow golf to

761
00:49:00,960 --> 00:49:01,460
prosper.

762
00:49:03,679 --> 00:49:04,159
Yep.

763
00:49:04,159 --> 00:49:10,000
You see South Korea, I mean, you can't or in
Japan, you can't get more mature than those

764
00:49:10,000 --> 00:49:19,324
markets are, yet the game continues to be
incredibly sought after, you know, by adults.

765
00:49:19,625 --> 00:49:25,690
You know, it's a game of prestige, and
certainly parents wanting their kids that

766
00:49:25,690 --> 00:49:33,610
opportunity to excel at the game of golf as an
opportunity, you know, if you will, to come and

767
00:49:33,610 --> 00:49:39,335
play golf in the States, get a scholarship, you
know, throughout Asia.

768
00:49:39,335 --> 00:49:41,835
You know, their goal is to go to Stanford.

769
00:49:43,734 --> 00:49:49,175
Stanford's only got so many spots available,
and you have to have good grades and you have

770
00:49:49,175 --> 00:49:50,315
to be a good player.

771
00:49:50,614 --> 00:49:58,059
And in Asia, in most at least in most cases,
education comes first, sports come second.

772
00:49:58,519 --> 00:50:00,539
And so you know they've got the grades.

773
00:50:00,599 --> 00:50:08,014
Now as an academy or as a coach, your
responsibility is to, you know, is to get them

774
00:50:08,014 --> 00:50:14,034
to be that good of a player that they can be
you know, they can come to ASU here in Arizona.

775
00:50:14,414 --> 00:50:17,234
You know, they can go to Stanford, then go to
Cal.

776
00:50:18,710 --> 00:50:19,029
Yeah.

777
00:50:19,029 --> 00:50:23,589
Do you think the Stanford side of it is driven
because of Tiger?

778
00:50:23,589 --> 00:50:29,109
I know Tiger has driven a lot of the Asian
market, but is that one of the significant

779
00:50:29,109 --> 00:50:32,170
reasons behind, you know, the goal of getting
to Stanford?

780
00:50:33,164 --> 00:50:33,664
No.

781
00:50:33,965 --> 00:50:35,585
Stanford is such a brand.

782
00:50:35,965 --> 00:50:39,565
Now if you go back to brands, yeah.

783
00:50:39,565 --> 00:50:40,065
Yeah.

784
00:50:40,125 --> 00:50:41,664
Stanford is a brand.

785
00:50:41,724 --> 00:50:48,849
You know, you travel around and I'm not a
Buckeye fan, but you travel around and you see

786
00:50:48,910 --> 00:50:53,170
Ohio State Buckeye gear freaking everywhere.

787
00:50:53,390 --> 00:50:54,110
Same thing.

788
00:50:54,110 --> 00:50:54,610
Yankees.

789
00:50:54,750 --> 00:50:55,730
It's a brand.

790
00:50:55,869 --> 00:50:56,190
Yeah.

791
00:50:56,190 --> 00:50:56,690
True.

792
00:50:57,150 --> 00:50:59,650
So, yeah, I think Stanford is a brand.

793
00:51:00,349 --> 00:51:02,824
Certainly, Tiger did not hurt.

794
00:51:03,925 --> 00:51:10,724
And the Tiger effect is still alive and well,
you know, in, you know, in parts of Asia

795
00:51:10,724 --> 00:51:14,425
because that's all they, you know, that's all
they saw.

796
00:51:14,565 --> 00:51:20,420
You know, Jack and Arnie and Gary, you know,
they were no longer part of the equation when

797
00:51:20,640 --> 00:51:23,300
the golf explosion hit in their market.

798
00:51:23,760 --> 00:51:24,260
Interesting.

799
00:51:24,800 --> 00:51:30,400
Now I do want to spend a little bit of time
around your project highlights and personal

800
00:51:30,400 --> 00:51:34,505
insights because the audience, you know, we got
a lot of people that are looking to break into

801
00:51:34,885 --> 00:51:36,585
the golf industry in particular.

802
00:51:37,125 --> 00:51:41,864
And one of the things that I wanna ask is
you've been involved in a lot of groundbreaking

803
00:51:42,005 --> 00:51:43,204
projects over the years.

804
00:51:43,204 --> 00:51:48,690
Can you share a few that have stood out and
ultimately what did you learn from them?

805
00:51:51,150 --> 00:51:51,470
Yeah.

806
00:51:51,470 --> 00:51:55,550
I look at and, you know, I and I'm I'm at fault
here.

807
00:51:55,550 --> 00:51:55,950
Right?

808
00:51:55,950 --> 00:52:02,775
I you know, we developed, successfully had a
patented, brought it to market.

809
00:52:02,775 --> 00:52:04,295
We're at the PGA show.

810
00:52:04,295 --> 00:52:06,635
We did the we did the whole thing.

811
00:52:06,855 --> 00:52:14,235
You know, we invented the first handheld
statistical computer for golf.

812
00:52:14,730 --> 00:52:16,409
It's called the Stat Tracker 2.

813
00:52:16,409 --> 00:52:20,969
The reason it was number 2 is Stat Tracker 1
looked like a Kleenex box.

814
00:52:20,969 --> 00:52:27,449
That's what the engineer came up with, and we
turned it into a product that is the size of an

815
00:52:27,449 --> 00:52:27,949
iPhone.

816
00:52:29,855 --> 00:52:38,974
And you were able to track four players at one
time and, yep, 14 valuable stats, did all the

817
00:52:38,974 --> 00:52:44,569
calculations, you know exactly what your your
fairways hit, your GIRs, your up and downs.

818
00:52:46,389 --> 00:52:46,869
Yep.

819
00:52:46,869 --> 00:52:51,369
We downloaded it into your, god, Windows Vista
maybe.

820
00:52:51,750 --> 00:52:52,250
Yep.

821
00:52:52,710 --> 00:52:54,329
Stuff that doesn't even exist.

822
00:52:56,230 --> 00:52:56,730
Yep.

823
00:52:57,054 --> 00:52:58,994
But was it commercially successful?

824
00:52:59,695 --> 00:53:00,195
No.

825
00:53:02,494 --> 00:53:04,094
Because yeah.

826
00:53:04,094 --> 00:53:08,275
It was too hard to convince the market the
value of tracking your stats.

827
00:53:09,215 --> 00:53:09,715
Interesting.

828
00:53:10,099 --> 00:53:13,860
We tried to spin it as a betting game because
we used it to bet.

829
00:53:13,860 --> 00:53:19,380
We would bet on our stats and we'd sit at the
Jeremy Ranch Golf and Country Club in Park

830
00:53:19,380 --> 00:53:20,199
City, Utah.

831
00:53:20,659 --> 00:53:23,079
We would download our stats and go, okay.

832
00:53:23,140 --> 00:53:23,460
Yeah.

833
00:53:23,460 --> 00:53:25,640
You owe me $5 each in GIRs.

834
00:53:26,445 --> 00:53:29,664
Well, I got that $5 back because I beat you in
putts.

835
00:53:31,005 --> 00:53:31,325
Yeah.

836
00:53:31,325 --> 00:53:34,385
So, you know, we tried different ways of
marketing the product.

837
00:53:34,925 --> 00:53:40,930
It was ahead of its time because now every
phone has a stat program built into it.

838
00:53:40,930 --> 00:53:42,470
There's value in that.

839
00:53:43,010 --> 00:53:49,490
So, you know, you have to know it's the
greatest idea in the world, but you have to

840
00:53:49,490 --> 00:53:58,534
know if the market is ready for you, and do you
have the staying power to get that market

841
00:53:58,594 --> 00:53:59,094
acceptance?

842
00:53:59,154 --> 00:54:01,574
You know, do you have enough money?

843
00:54:02,594 --> 00:54:03,974
Do you have enough conviction?

844
00:54:05,949 --> 00:54:10,750
You know, do you have the right marketing
message, the right platforms to make the

845
00:54:10,750 --> 00:54:11,890
product successful?

846
00:54:12,750 --> 00:54:19,309
So, yeah, I always talk to people that want to
come in on the golf market, and I call golf

847
00:54:19,309 --> 00:54:19,809
sexy.

848
00:54:20,984 --> 00:54:21,224
Yep.

849
00:54:21,224 --> 00:54:23,704
It's a sexy sport to get into.

850
00:54:23,704 --> 00:54:26,284
You know who your audience is.

851
00:54:26,824 --> 00:54:27,065
Right?

852
00:54:27,065 --> 00:54:31,565
It's a finite group even though it's, you know,
millions and millions and millions of people.

853
00:54:33,224 --> 00:54:33,724
Yep.

854
00:54:33,864 --> 00:54:40,820
But, yeah, beyond being sexy, you, you know,
you have to I always you know, my marketing

855
00:54:40,820 --> 00:54:42,199
background says, okay.

856
00:54:42,420 --> 00:54:42,920
Yep.

857
00:54:42,980 --> 00:54:44,760
Is it a product that's marketable?

858
00:54:45,859 --> 00:54:47,480
Now let's develop it.

859
00:54:48,434 --> 00:54:52,934
Now can we develop it to the right price point,
to the right features and benefits?

860
00:54:53,474 --> 00:54:53,795
Yep.

861
00:54:53,795 --> 00:54:58,614
It doesn't do us any good to have the best golf
club in the world if it's $3,000.

862
00:55:01,079 --> 00:55:01,480
Yep.

863
00:55:01,480 --> 00:55:07,579
So you have to, you know, design your company,
design your product, service, technology,

864
00:55:07,640 --> 00:55:08,619
whatever it is.

865
00:55:08,840 --> 00:55:14,605
You know, what is the, you know, the end
product here, the end market, and can you, you

866
00:55:14,605 --> 00:55:17,265
know, can you be successful in that place?

867
00:55:17,805 --> 00:55:20,605
If you can make it work financially, great.

868
00:55:20,605 --> 00:55:27,119
If you've got the wherewithal to keep coming
back to that PGA Merchandise Show.

869
00:55:27,119 --> 00:55:30,339
It as painful as it is, and you know it very
well.

870
00:55:30,880 --> 00:55:31,460
I do.

871
00:55:32,319 --> 00:55:35,760
You know, can you, you know, can you have the
right sales team out there?

872
00:55:35,760 --> 00:55:41,619
Can you, you know, do all the things that will
make a startup product a success?

873
00:55:43,324 --> 00:55:51,804
Golf is a great one to start with, but I always
say, look down the road because if you're

874
00:55:51,804 --> 00:55:57,400
developing it for golf, it may have the same
application in baseball.

875
00:55:58,739 --> 00:56:05,460
And baseball is infinitely a much bigger
participation sport in the States than golf.

876
00:56:05,460 --> 00:56:10,845
If you think about youth baseball, youth
softball, the NCAA level.

877
00:56:11,465 --> 00:56:13,805
If it works for baseball, does it work for
cricket?

878
00:56:15,065 --> 00:56:19,785
Now you could take your product to India where
cricket is—yeah.

879
00:56:19,785 --> 00:56:21,325
Cricket beats everything.

880
00:56:22,989 --> 00:56:23,230
Yeah.

881
00:56:23,230 --> 00:56:30,030
This is something that can be developed or
modified for tennis or pickleball, for heaven's

882
00:56:30,030 --> 00:56:30,530
sake.

883
00:56:31,710 --> 00:56:35,230
So look outside of the golf market as you're
developing it.

884
00:56:35,230 --> 00:56:37,329
What else can you do with it?

885
00:56:37,469 --> 00:56:44,094
Prove it in golf, but always have an eye to
where, you know, there's a much bigger ocean

886
00:56:44,094 --> 00:56:46,675
out there than the golf market.

887
00:56:48,655 --> 00:56:54,569
pretty much—I had a couple questions around
that, and you nailed it across the entire part

888
00:56:54,569 --> 00:56:55,869
of that segment.

889
00:56:55,929 --> 00:57:00,409
So I'm gonna move into our final segment, which
is our rapid-fire Q&A.

890
00:57:00,409 --> 00:57:05,529
And first question that I have for you as you
get onto the hot seat is what's your favorite

891
00:57:05,529 --> 00:57:07,710
golf course that you've ever worked on or
visited?

892
00:57:10,454 --> 00:57:18,155
I'm biased, even though this is not a Nicklaus
golf course, but, in Marbella, Spain.

893
00:57:18,534 --> 00:57:19,194
Oh, wow.

894
00:57:19,815 --> 00:57:22,315
Your views are looking over the Mediterranean.

895
00:57:23,390 --> 00:57:24,930
I love mountain courses.

896
00:57:25,789 --> 00:57:31,630
You know, growing up in Utah, specifically
living in Park City for 28 years, I love

897
00:57:31,630 --> 00:57:32,750
elevation changes.

898
00:57:32,750 --> 00:57:40,445
I love that challenge of the game—sidehill
lies, uphill, downhills, and I had an academy

899
00:57:40,445 --> 00:57:40,945
there.

900
00:57:41,085 --> 00:57:46,684
But I mean, it's just a fabulous golf course
with views to die for.

901
00:57:46,684 --> 00:57:49,105
So think of Finca Cortesin in Spain.

902
00:57:49,724 --> 00:57:50,224
Beautiful.

903
00:57:50,364 --> 00:57:51,949
Now, next question.

904
00:57:52,170 --> 00:57:56,269
What do you think is the biggest game changer
in golf technology today?

905
00:58:04,565 --> 00:58:09,704
I think it's ball tracking, you know, which is
broad.

906
00:58:09,764 --> 00:58:10,085
Right?

907
00:58:10,085 --> 00:58:11,525
I could say launch monitors.

908
00:58:11,525 --> 00:58:12,664
I could say simulators.

909
00:58:12,884 --> 00:58:15,144
I could say driving range tech.

910
00:58:15,364 --> 00:58:21,170
I think it's ball tracking, you know, because
when you, you know, simulated indoor golf now

911
00:58:21,170 --> 00:58:21,909
is incredible.

912
00:58:22,609 --> 00:58:24,130
You know, the stuff is good.

913
00:58:24,130 --> 00:58:28,929
I mean, the technology is good whether, you
know, you incorporate a TrackMan or a

914
00:58:28,929 --> 00:58:31,304
FlightScope or use, yeah.

915
00:58:31,304 --> 00:58:31,804
Yeah.

916
00:58:31,945 --> 00:58:34,664
Use, you know, Full Swing or whomever it may
be.

917
00:58:34,664 --> 00:58:36,585
I mean, the technology is good.

918
00:58:37,144 --> 00:58:38,844
You get good data back.

919
00:58:39,144 --> 00:58:44,909
If you are at a driving range, whether it's
Toptracer, TrackMan in range, you're getting

920
00:58:44,909 --> 00:58:45,809
good data.

921
00:58:46,109 --> 00:58:56,510
Seeing ball flight, you know, is fun, and I
think it's more engaging to the customer when

922
00:58:56,510 --> 00:58:58,530
they learn to appreciate it.

923
00:58:59,114 --> 00:58:59,434
Yep.

924
00:58:59,434 --> 00:59:04,394
I'm gonna go off here a little bit, but, you
know, you work with driving ranges and they

925
00:59:04,394 --> 00:59:09,394
wanna bring you technology, but they still
wanna have a certain number of bays and

926
00:59:09,394 --> 00:59:10,014
buckets.

927
00:59:11,400 --> 00:59:17,159
Well, once you give people an opportunity to
see what their ball flight is, what their

928
00:59:17,159 --> 00:59:22,920
distances are, how right and left they are,
and, you know, they can't track that with their

929
00:59:22,920 --> 00:59:23,420
eyes.

930
00:59:24,305 --> 00:59:29,505
Now all of a sudden, it's engaging that guy
that used to hit a small bucket of balls is

931
00:59:29,505 --> 00:59:36,465
more than happy to pay for an hour of good data
at a driving range and possibly maybe have a

932
00:59:36,465 --> 00:59:40,050
beer or a sandwich or a Diet Coke or whatever.

933
00:59:41,550 --> 00:59:43,710
So to me, it's ball tracking.

934
00:59:43,710 --> 00:59:45,730
You see it on the TV telecast.

935
00:59:46,190 --> 00:59:48,130
Why not see it when you hit the ball?

936
00:59:48,670 --> 00:59:50,849
I love that, and I couldn't agree more.

937
00:59:51,135 --> 00:59:54,494
Now, last question here in the rapid-fire Q and
A.

938
00:59:54,494 --> 00:59:57,554
Who's your dream foursome, living or deceased?

939
00:59:58,974 --> 01:00:00,974
Oh, it's got I mean, it it yeah.

940
01:00:00,974 --> 01:00:02,114
It's it's easy.

941
01:00:02,175 --> 01:00:03,795
For me, for me, it's easy.

942
01:00:04,500 --> 01:00:06,440
I'm still alive, so I'm included.

943
01:00:08,019 --> 01:00:13,539
Jack, you know, you know, to play a round of
golf with Jack, and I'm selfish.

944
01:00:13,539 --> 01:00:15,079
I'm gonna have my two sons.

945
01:00:15,539 --> 01:00:16,420
Oh, love that.

946
01:00:16,420 --> 01:00:17,480
Dustin and Ryan.

947
01:00:17,735 --> 01:00:23,914
I mean, father-son golf, I think is, yeah, is
one of the greatest experiences in life.

948
01:00:24,695 --> 01:00:29,994
And to, you know, maybe go play a round of golf
with Jack, and my boys.

949
01:00:30,135 --> 01:00:31,380
So it.

950
01:00:31,380 --> 01:00:32,119
Game over.

951
01:00:32,420 --> 01:00:34,359
Love that answer.

952
01:00:34,739 --> 01:00:40,819
I love that aspect of the father-son, and then
adding Jack into the mix as well.

953
01:00:40,819 --> 01:00:45,619
So clearly, he didn't get that mad at you too
often because you wanna still play golf with

954
01:00:45,619 --> 01:00:46,635
him, which is nice.

955
01:00:47,034 --> 01:00:47,534
Yep.

956
01:00:47,755 --> 01:00:48,255
Yep.

957
01:00:48,474 --> 01:00:48,554
Yep.

958
01:00:48,554 --> 01:00:50,394
Should still wanna go play golf with them.

959
01:00:50,394 --> 01:00:50,894
Absolutely.

960
01:00:53,195 --> 01:00:56,894
It would have said a lot if Jack wasn't in your
dream foursome.

961
01:00:57,114 --> 01:01:03,820
But, that being said, as we conclude this
episode with Ted Simons, this was fantastic,

962
01:01:04,119 --> 01:01:04,920
very insightful.

963
01:01:04,920 --> 01:01:10,679
I think the audience really is going to take
away a lot from this conversation, not only

964
01:01:10,679 --> 01:01:15,815
around LIV Golf, the international aspects, the
business aspects that you brought up as well.

965
01:01:15,815 --> 01:01:20,474
I think your insights were unique and different
than what we've had on the show previously

966
01:01:20,534 --> 01:01:23,114
because you have that international experience.

967
01:01:24,135 --> 01:01:29,494
And, certainly, I do want to thank you for your
time, and it's been a pleasure having you on

968
01:01:29,494 --> 01:01:32,349
the show to provide us with all of those
insights.

969
01:01:32,349 --> 01:01:38,030
Now to our listeners, definitely make sure to
check out Synergy Group Consulting if you're

970
01:01:38,030 --> 01:01:40,769
looking for top-tier consulting in sports and
development.

971
01:01:41,630 --> 01:01:47,325
Ted, where can somebody go to find more
information about Synergy Group Consulting or

972
01:01:47,644 --> 01:01:49,664
your personal side of it as well?

973
01:01:50,605 --> 01:01:53,244
You know, I'm not, I'm not the social media
king.

974
01:01:53,244 --> 01:01:56,065
So, yeah, my website, which is
synergygroupconsulting.net.

975
01:01:59,320 --> 01:01:59,480
Yeah.

976
01:01:59,480 --> 01:02:01,159
That's home base.

977
01:02:01,159 --> 01:02:08,280
And then, you know, my idea of social media is
LinkedIn, and you will find me on LinkedIn, and

978
01:02:08,280 --> 01:02:12,644
you will see me, actually, you'll find me there
quite a bit.

979
01:02:13,525 --> 01:02:20,164
But no, I'm not, I know I have an Instagram,
and I think last I checked, I have five friends

980
01:02:20,164 --> 01:02:20,965
on Facebook.

981
01:02:20,965 --> 01:02:23,385
So, I'm I'm I'm not there.

982
01:02:23,765 --> 01:02:24,804
So, yeah.

983
01:02:24,804 --> 01:02:25,704
There you go.

984
01:02:26,180 --> 01:02:27,940
You're not building a social media empire.

985
01:02:27,940 --> 01:02:28,900
That's for sure, Ted.

986
01:02:28,900 --> 01:02:32,519
Well, once again, thank you for coming on to
the Pull Hook Golf Podcast.

987
01:02:32,871 --> 01:02:39,191
And, once again, thank you, Ted, for being a
part of this show with us here today, and stay

988
01:02:39,191 --> 01:02:41,851
tuned to next week for the next episode.

989
01:02:42,550 --> 01:02:43,291
See you, everybody.

990
01:02:43,510 --> 01:02:44,615
Thank you very much, man.