Monday, September 23, 2024

Show Notes

Matt Cook chats with Parker McLachlin about his golf journey, mental coaching, and his unique PGA Tour win in Hawaii. They explore the creation of the Short Game Chef, Parker's coaching philosophy, and what makes his short game coaching stand out. Parker shares practical chipping tips for average golfers and strategies for Bermuda grass. They also discuss instructor rivalries, social media's role, and critiques of standardized methods. Parker introduces the Short Game Chef online program and app, discusses community building, and answers rapid-fire questions. The episode concludes with Tour Championship predictions and closing thoughts.

(0:00) Introduction and Parker McLaughlin's journey in golf
(1:04) Parker McLaughlin's early days and transition to professional golf
(6:05) Hawaiian PGA Tour winners and the role of mental coaching
(9:51) Creation of Short Game Chef and unique PGA Tour win
(13:53) Short game coaching and teaching philosophy
(18:08) Differentiating factors in Parker's short game coaching
(19:49) Chipping advice for average golfers
(28:43) Playing strategies for Bermuda grass
(34:30) Instructor rivalries and social media in golf
(36:38) Short game techniques and variety importance
(47:47) Critique of standardized instruction methods
(49:01) Media's influence on golf instruction
(50:50) Introduction to Short Game Chef online program and app
(58:22) Short Game Chef community building and rapid fire Q&A
(1:04:11) Tour Championship predictions and closing thoughts

Show Transcript

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Welcome back, everybody, to Pull Hook Golf, the
podcast.

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I'm your host, Matt Cook.

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And today, we're diving into the world of short
game mastery because if you've been listening

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to this podcast, you know my short game sucks.

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So we've got a special guest today and PGA Tour
winner and now short game guru, Parker

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McLachlin.

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I mean, your journey through professional golf
is nothing short of inspiring.

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From winning on the PGA Tour to becoming known
now as the Short Game Chef, we're gonna get

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into all of that and how you've dedicated your
career to helping golfers of all levels and

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helping them sharpen their short game skills,
which I think is the most difficult aspect of

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golf, in general.

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But once again, we'll get to that in a little
bit.

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But, folks, in this episode, we're gonna
explore Parker's background.

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We're gonna talk about how his path to the PGA
Tour helped him transition into this Short Game

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Chef and, really the success of his online
platform.

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And then we'll dive into some practical
chipping advice for all of you.

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So without further ado, welcome, Parker.

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Let's get started here.

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Let's get started with your beginning.

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Can you tell us, I mean, from the early days
of, you know, growing up in Hawaii and so

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forth, how'd you ultimately get from a little
kid in Hawaii to making it onto the PGA Tour?

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Yeah.

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I mean, good question.

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I think, no.

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I was always a gym rat.

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So my my dad was a basketball coach, and a
volleyball coach.

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My mom was a volleyball player, like, so I I
was always in the gym.

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And so, I mean, I grew up with a basketball and
a volleyball in my hands, and and those were

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sort of my first two loves.

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And then along came golf when I was sort of
like, you know, 10, 11.

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I got introduced to it, and I was like, I
started to get frustrated.

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Some of my teammates in basketball and
volleyball, they they would show up late, and

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we would have to run lines because of them.

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And I just remember thinking to myself, like,
golf is a little bit more of an individual

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sport, and so however much I work, I usually
see payoff in the end on my end as far as

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success goes.

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So that's sort of what initially attracted me
to golf, and then, you know, I didn't have

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great access to golf courses growing up.

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We weren't a member of any country club or
anything like that.

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I grew up playing at the local muni golf
course.

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It was called Ala Wai Golf Course, and it's
actually the, the most—it had like a Guinness

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Book of World Records for the most rounds of
golf on a golf course in one year, like

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something like 255,000 rounds in a year played.

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It was like the busiest golf course on planet
Earth, right?

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Because you got basically, you know, it's in
Waikiki.

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You got sunshine every day.

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And so they play sixes and six-minute interval
tee times.

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I'm not kidding you.

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It's crazy.

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You get to the third hole, and it's like a
four-group backup.

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You jump the fence, you go across to Jack in
the Box, and you get some food, and you come

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back.

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Anyway, that's how I kind of grew up.

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But I did a lot of, I was more into playing, so
I would always go out in the afternoon.

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Parents would drop me off, and I would play in
the afternoon.

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So I'd go and play nine holes, and I would just
hit a bunch of shots, and I loved the feeling

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of being creative, being behind coconut trees,
and having to shape it up and over or around

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it, left or right.

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So, and then, you know, missing greens and
just, you know, hitting a bunch of shots around

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the greens.

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For me.

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Like that was the really cool part about golf
was the creativity.

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That was what I, what really drew me to the
game.

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And, and then, you know, I was decent in high
school.

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I was good enough to sort of get a half
scholarship to UCLA and went over there and

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played for, a redshirt my first year played for
four more years.

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And then it was sort of like, I was never great
in college, but I had a couple of second-place

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finishes, but I was always kind of, you know,
15th to 35th, I'd say.

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And I, you know, I think, I think for me, I
ended up having a wrist surgery after college

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and it took some time.

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I probably had about nine months where I
couldn't touch a golf club.

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And so I took some time to really work on my
mental game.

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And I met a sports psychologist.

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I started reading a bunch of books.

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We started implementing some of the things I
was learning in the books.

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And, and then I turned pro, after sort of about
a year's time.

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And that was, you know, to me, like, that was,
that was the then separator of going from a

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mediocre college golfer to then I won on every
major mini tour, in the next two years, from

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the Hooters Tour, the Gateway Tour, the All Pro
Tour, the Spanos Tour.

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Like, I won on every single major mini tour the
next couple years after really I didn't win at

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all in college.

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And so a lot of it was just that mental part of
it that I just sort of unlocked, that proper

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sort of mental state for me and how to the
right things to feed my mind, but then also the

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right things, like how to get me into a flow
state.

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And and then I just sort of general, you know,
just gently ascended up to the PGA Tour.

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So a couple of years on the mini tour, one year
on the Korn Ferry Tour, and then, and then got

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my tour card.

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So that was you know, there there's not a lot
of us that come from Hawaii that have made it

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to the PGA Tour.

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I think I think there's been four of us that
have, that have won on the PGA Tour that have

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been born and raised in Hawaii.

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So it's a small, it's a small group.

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Can you name them?

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I I know Collin Morikawa.

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You.

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I don't know the other two, though, off the top
of my head.

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Collin is actually from L.A.

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So it's,

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Dean Wilson.

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That's right.

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The media loves to play it up around how he is
a Hawaiian kid and so forth, but you're right.

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He's L.A.

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His parents were from Hawaii.

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He spent some time there, but, so hang on.

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So let's go back to the list.

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Yep.

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So Dean Wilson, David Ishii, and Ted Makalena.

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Okay.

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And myself.

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Wow.

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Yeah.

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That's a good trivia question right there.

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I love that.

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Now, you mentioned something that we talk about
on this podcast a lot, which is around the

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mental side of the game and how you got a
mental coach in order to help you really kind

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of hone in your mental side of the game of
golf.

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And I don't think this is paid enough attention
to per se, but you're going back to where, you

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know, that wasn't a popular thing to do.

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What kind of pushed you to go down that path?

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Man.

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That's a good question.

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I think that, you know, for me, it's, you know,
I was always great at short game.

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You've got Montreux as your background there
behind you.

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And on that Sunday, when I won my only tour
event, I hit five greens in regulation on that

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Sunday and I hit one green in regulation on the
first nine holes and I was 8 for 8 in up and

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downs.

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So I've always been really solid with my short
game.

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And so, you know, when I, you know, I didn't
start this out of like, hey, I'm going to just

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sort of start a business.

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It was like a caddie friend of mine said, look,
your short game's caddied for me a bunch of

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times.

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And he's like, your short game is ridiculous.

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You should do some tips on Instagram about how
people can get better with their short game.

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Like I've never heard anyone describe it the
way you describe it.

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And so I was like, all right.

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So he filmed a dozen videos for me, little
one-minute videos.

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And he helped me sort of set up an Instagram
account because I'd never, I'd never been on

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Instagram before.

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And, and he's like, okay, now you gotta come up
with like a, like a catchy name.

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And I was like, can't just use my own name.

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He's like, no, no, no, come up with like a
catchy name.

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And so I came up with Short Game Chef because,
you know, every shot around the green requires

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some type of different ingredient or some type
of different recipe.

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If you want to go high and soft, or if you want
to go low and spinning, there's all sorts of

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different shots and each shot calls for a
different type of a recipe.

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So for me, I was like, well, short game guru,
not a little too self-serving, short game

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wizard.

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So I was like, I sort of settled on it.

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I knew it was going to be about the short game.

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I wasn't going to be talking about the long
game.

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I was going to be talking about the short game.

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So then I said short game and then chef.

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And then I started as time has gone on, I, you
start to see even on the PGA Tour feed now.

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Someone will hit a short game shot and they'll
be like, that was so saucy.

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Or they'll just have like the chef's kiss, the
chef's kiss emoji.

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Right.

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And it's like, oh my gosh.

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Like, I don't know if it was sort of me that
sort of started that or if it's just the short

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game and, you know, saucy chef, all that
recipe, all that stuff kind of goes together.

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But, but yeah, anyway, that's how it all sort
of got started.

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And literally two days after I had put my
Instagram account up, Kevin's real man reached

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out to me and said, hey, I see you're doing
some short game teaching.

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I'd love to spend a couple of hours with you.

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And so my first paid lesson was to the guy
ranked 93rd in the world.

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And I was like, I better figure this out.

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And then it's just been, it's literally just
been word-of-mouth ever since.

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That's incredible.

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Let's go back though, because most people can't
even dream, or they do dream of winning on the

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PGA Tour.

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And I gotta ask you because this was a unique
win on the PGA Tour, because you mentioned it

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before as to how many greens you hit, but I
believe you only hit one green in your first 10

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holes in that final round and ended up still
winning by seven shots.

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I mean, that's it.

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That once again, another great trivia question.

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What is the who is the only player to hit 1
green in their final 10 hole or their first 10

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holes of the final round and still win by 7
shots?

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It's like, tell us about that experience.

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Oh, man.

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It was, you know, like the first three days, I
just felt like my golf swing was just right in

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the slot.

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I just, I couldn't miss.

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My putting was on point, and, you know, I shoot
68, 62, 66, and I've built up a six-shot lead

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over second, a nine-shot lead over third, and
an 11-shot lead over fourth.

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So, like, I was blitzing the field.

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And then all of a sudden, like the last, like
hole and a half on Saturday, I started feeling

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a little bit tighter through impact.

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The ball started coming off the clubface a
little bit more low heel, which is sort of like

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handle raise and hold onto it for me.

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And it was just like it just I knew it just
didn't quite feel right.

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And I was like, uh-oh.

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I think I might've lost it.

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So, and so I didn't sleep much that night
because I was just, like, you know, in my own

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head, you know, like, oh, I've got a six-shot
lead.

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You know, these are the days of Tiger Woods
where you're like, Tiger's the only guy that

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wins by this much.

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And so I've got this huge lead and, you know,
all the negative thoughts that could possibly

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go through your head go through your head, and
you just all the mental work that I'd done, it

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was, like, trying so hard to just, like, just
keep out the bad thoughts and harness the good

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thoughts.

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Like, Happy Gilmore.

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Right?

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It's like, keep out the bad, harness the good.

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And it was hard.

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It was just hard to do, and it was a it was a
it was a tough night.

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I didn't sleep, hardly at all.

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Late tee time the next day, get out to the golf
course, and and I was just like, okay.

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Just gotta get to the range, and then it'll
it'll all be fine.

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And then I get to the range, and I didn't hit
one shot in the center of the clubface in my

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warmup session.

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And it was just like, oh man, this might be a
rough one.

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I better buckle up and really be ready to
grind.

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And so I did, I grinded one green in
regulation.

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The first nine holes, I was even par.

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00:12:50,195 --> 00:12:53,815
Missed the green in regulation on 10, made
bogey.

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And, yeah, I mean, I really never felt
comfortable at all in that entire round until I

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hit my second shot on 18 onto the green.

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That's not we.

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It was a brutal, brutal day.

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I've talked about this with PGA Tour caddies
that sometimes for them, even when their player

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00:13:14,089 --> 00:13:20,514
has a big lead, that they're most fearful at
that point because it's like the thoughts start

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creeping in and all of a sudden it's really
hard to sleep on a big lead on Saturday night.

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So everything that you just said resonates with
the audience, resonates with me specifically,

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as I'm like, wow, that fits perfectly in line
with everything else I've heard from everybody

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that's kind of been in that position.

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But clearly, you've got an insane short game
because you missed nine greens in your first 10

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holes and still ended up winning by seven.

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00:13:45,625 --> 00:13:51,544
So now we gotta get into the fact of you
transitioning into the Short Game Chef and

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getting into that side of the business.

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You've already talked a little bit about this,
as we've been talking about how you kinda had a

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00:13:59,730 --> 00:14:01,490
buddy set up an Instagram account for you.

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You gotta create a cool name, so the recipes, I
totally get that with each of the different

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short game shots and so forth.

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But, in that transition, I mean, you knew that
you had a good short game, but what made you

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think, oh, you know what?

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I can actually teach this, and what's being
taught isn't necessarily the right stuff right

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now.

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00:14:27,139 --> 00:14:27,460
Yeah.

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So I think I think where I saw a gap in, like,
playing a bunch of pro-ams, seeing amateurs

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struggle, you know, I saw a gap as to, like,
well, what is it that they're trying to do and

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then what is being taught?

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00:14:46,544 --> 00:14:49,764
Like, what are they telling me that they're
being told what to do?

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You know, a lot of them were telling me, like,
oh, I'm trying to get the ball in the back of

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my stance.

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I'm trying to get the shaft forward.

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I really want to get good ball contact.

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00:15:00,110 --> 00:15:05,870
And they would inevitably either get really
good ball contact and it would go over the

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green, or they would fear that really good ball
contact and then they would back out of it and

248
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then they would chunk it.

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And then the second that they went into that
chunk mode, they went back here and then they

250
00:15:18,804 --> 00:15:22,024
would flip at it, and then all of a sudden it
would become a blade.

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00:15:22,679 --> 00:15:28,700
So their really good shots were actually, like,
10 to 15, 20 feet too far.

252
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And then their bad shots, they were still
chipping again short of the green or over the

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green.

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00:15:34,360 --> 00:15:35,320
They're chipping back.

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00:15:35,320 --> 00:15:41,245
So I just started looking at this stuff, and
I'm like, boy, the information that they're

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being given is not necessarily right.

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00:15:44,664 --> 00:15:46,605
It's not what tour players are doing.

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00:15:47,625 --> 00:15:53,889
I think that there's a way that I can explain
this to people in a simple and digestible way

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00:15:53,889 --> 00:16:02,210
that can really help them to make their chip
shots a little bit easier and not so precise

260
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and not so difficult.

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00:16:04,465 --> 00:16:11,105
Man, that is music to my ears because I'll tell
you.

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I mean, I'm one of those guys that you just
described to where it's like, okay.

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00:16:15,504 --> 00:16:20,879
I'm either going to have it a little bit heavy
and leave it short or I'm blasting it over the

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green.

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00:16:21,279 --> 00:16:26,740
So, I definitely think I could use your help by
all means.

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00:16:27,120 --> 00:16:33,315
But that being said, do you think the short
game side of it is kind of a competitive area

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00:16:33,315 --> 00:16:39,254
where there are certain guys that have this
niche of being a short game guru, so to speak?

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00:16:39,554 --> 00:16:41,554
But how do you differentiate yourself?

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00:16:41,554 --> 00:16:45,490
Is it from a PGA Tour standpoint that, hey, I
played, I won?

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00:16:45,550 --> 00:16:49,570
Or is it something different that you feel like
is your unique approach?

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00:16:50,670 --> 00:16:50,990
Yeah.

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00:16:50,990 --> 00:16:54,610
I think there's a handful of things that I do
really well.

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00:16:55,070 --> 00:16:56,670
One of them is my pedigree.

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00:16:56,670 --> 00:16:56,910
Right?

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00:16:56,910 --> 00:17:02,554
So obviously having played on every sort of
mini tour, Korn Ferry Tour, PGA Tour, having a

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00:17:02,554 --> 00:17:09,994
win on the PGA Tour, you know, that gives me
the understanding of what it feels like to play

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and sort of choke at the highest level and then
what works the best under those high-stress

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00:17:16,210 --> 00:17:16,710
situations.

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00:17:17,490 --> 00:17:19,670
So that's one sort of part of it.

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00:17:20,049 --> 00:17:26,845
I think the other part of it is, you know, I
was mentored for about seven years by Paul

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00:17:26,845 --> 00:17:33,085
Azinger, who, in my opinion, has got one of the
best short games when he was playing.

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00:17:33,085 --> 00:17:34,144
He still does.

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00:17:34,684 --> 00:17:42,700
And Paul's, you know, from what I can tell and
the people that I've talked to, Paul's got a

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top-three golf IQ of all time, and he's in that
upper echelon of people that just think about

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00:17:49,819 --> 00:17:50,559
things differently.

286
00:17:51,295 --> 00:17:57,055
And so I was able to learn quite a bit from
him, and in learning that, I take some of that

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00:17:57,055 --> 00:18:06,759
and I'm able to pass that along to my clients
in a way I communicate to them in a very easily

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00:18:06,899 --> 00:18:08,039
digestible way.

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00:18:08,500 --> 00:18:14,500
And I think that part of it is hard to quantify
because, you know, when you go through my

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00:18:14,500 --> 00:18:20,144
website and you go through the app that we've
created, the videos are made in like one and a

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00:18:20,144 --> 00:18:26,465
half to three and a half minute videos so that
you're able to digest that information, take it

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00:18:26,465 --> 00:18:33,424
in, and then you can move on to the next video
or just take down your notes or go practice it

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00:18:33,424 --> 00:18:34,085
right then.

294
00:18:34,880 --> 00:18:42,720
So I think one of the greatest compliments that
I feel like I continue to get is that I make it

295
00:18:42,720 --> 00:18:43,440
so simple.

296
00:18:43,440 --> 00:18:48,019
I make it so easy and so simple and so easily
digestible for people.

297
00:18:48,214 --> 00:18:55,515
And I think that in a teacher, being a good
communicator is extremely valuable.

298
00:18:56,454 --> 00:18:57,275
It is huge.

299
00:18:57,815 --> 00:18:58,055
Yeah.

300
00:18:58,055 --> 00:19:01,195
Cause I could go and say, you know, I could go
and say a bunch of big words.

301
00:19:01,335 --> 00:19:01,575
Right.

302
00:19:01,575 --> 00:19:05,419
And tell you like, well, you're done, done,
done, done, done, you know, every, you know,

303
00:19:05,419 --> 00:19:10,859
and use all these huge words that were all of a
sudden it it you may think I'm smart, but you

304
00:19:10,859 --> 00:19:13,419
haven't necessarily learned anything because

305
00:19:13,419 --> 00:19:14,819
you got no idea what the hell you're saying.

306
00:19:15,019 --> 00:19:16,240
So far over your head.

307
00:19:16,299 --> 00:19:16,700
Yeah.

308
00:19:16,700 --> 00:19:17,200
Exactly.

309
00:19:18,105 --> 00:19:18,605
100%.

310
00:19:18,825 --> 00:19:24,585
So, you know, the point is, like, yeah, I want
to make it so that you can understand what I'm

311
00:19:24,585 --> 00:19:29,464
saying, that we can talk about a handful of
different things, and that hopefully one of

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00:19:29,464 --> 00:19:36,640
those things fits and sticks and that you're
able to take that in and be like, that's your

313
00:19:36,640 --> 00:19:37,700
light bulb moment.

314
00:19:38,000 --> 00:19:45,984
That's a feel or a thought, or a cue that you
can latch onto, and that'll help carry you

315
00:19:45,984 --> 00:19:48,565
through when you're hitting your short game
shots.

316
00:19:49,345 --> 00:19:49,505
I

317
00:19:49,505 --> 00:19:49,984
love that.

318
00:19:49,984 --> 00:19:55,025
Now we're gonna get into just some average
golfer chipping advice here.

319
00:19:55,025 --> 00:19:55,525
Alright?

320
00:19:55,744 --> 00:20:01,150
So we're gonna test you a little bit and give
the audience some tips that hopefully are going

321
00:20:01,150 --> 00:20:02,130
to help them.

322
00:20:02,269 --> 00:20:07,390
But chipping obviously can be one of the most
intimidating aspects of the short game for any

323
00:20:07,390 --> 00:20:07,890
golfer.

324
00:20:08,190 --> 00:20:13,565
But what's the first piece of advice you'd give
to any average golfer who struggles with

325
00:20:13,565 --> 00:20:15,184
consistency around the greens?

326
00:20:17,164 --> 00:20:24,605
Well, I would say that you would want to look
at a chip shot more like a bigger putting

327
00:20:24,605 --> 00:20:33,109
stroke than you would want to take it from your
normal 7-iron and shrink it down.

328
00:20:33,170 --> 00:20:38,930
I don't necessarily love being like, let me get
in a wide stance with my feet, let me push my

329
00:20:38,930 --> 00:20:44,954
hands forward, and let me just make a smaller
iron swing and hit this chip shot.

330
00:20:45,095 --> 00:20:50,394
Because then your body doesn't move, your feet
are too wide, hands are pressed forward.

331
00:20:51,095 --> 00:20:53,819
A lot of things are leading to this ball coming
off hot.

332
00:20:53,899 --> 00:21:03,359
I think that a chip shot should be closer in
relation to a putting stroke than it would be a

333
00:21:04,380 --> 00:21:06,139
full swing with like a 7-iron.

334
00:21:06,139 --> 00:21:12,565
So I would always start with if you don't know
where to start chipping and you want to just be

335
00:21:12,565 --> 00:21:18,725
like, let's build a baseline foundation, bring
your feet all the way together, get them just

336
00:21:18,725 --> 00:21:21,605
touching, and just start there.

337
00:21:21,605 --> 00:21:27,740
Start moving your body, start moving your
torso, start moving your rib cage, start moving

338
00:21:27,740 --> 00:21:29,840
your arms in unison with all that.

339
00:21:30,940 --> 00:21:36,880
Don't start using the wrist just yet, but just
learn to turn, learn to pivot.

340
00:21:37,214 --> 00:21:39,054
That would be the very first place to start.

341
00:21:39,054 --> 00:21:45,054
And I would start with a lower lofted club like
a 50, 52 or a pitching wedge.

342
00:21:45,054 --> 00:21:52,109
Start there if you just start, you know, two to
three yards off the green and start to build in

343
00:21:52,109 --> 00:21:58,029
a baseline, that would be my biggest suggestion
for someone who's maybe just starting out or

344
00:21:58,029 --> 00:22:04,424
maybe just unsure of what philosophy to sort of
go with.

345
00:22:04,424 --> 00:22:11,085
I love that because it is so tough to put
everybody into a box and to have general advice

346
00:22:11,464 --> 00:22:12,105
for people.

347
00:22:12,105 --> 00:22:17,340
And that right there was probably, I mean, I'm
sitting here going, wow.

348
00:22:17,340 --> 00:22:22,460
That's a really good freaking answer because
I've heard a lot of different answers to that

349
00:22:22,460 --> 00:22:22,779
question.

350
00:22:22,779 --> 00:22:23,420
I'm like, wow.

351
00:22:23,420 --> 00:22:25,200
That's actually really, really good.

352
00:22:25,420 --> 00:22:29,180
So clearly, folks, Parker knows his stuff.

353
00:22:29,180 --> 00:22:30,960
I don't think that is up for debate.

354
00:22:31,484 --> 00:22:35,884
Now I will get a little bit on the personal
side of where my member guest over the past

355
00:22:35,884 --> 00:22:36,365
weekend.

356
00:22:36,365 --> 00:22:37,085
I struggled.

357
00:22:37,085 --> 00:22:37,884
I had the yips.

358
00:22:37,884 --> 00:22:38,684
I was chunking.

359
00:22:38,684 --> 00:22:39,585
I was thinning.

360
00:22:40,125 --> 00:22:45,990
There really wasn't any good ones in between,
and granted, I'm a 3.5 handicap right now.

361
00:22:46,069 --> 00:22:50,950
When I played and played on the mini tours,
like, you said that you were going all around.

362
00:22:50,950 --> 00:22:54,710
And by the way, folks, when you're on the mini
tours and playing around, you're playing on a

363
00:22:54,710 --> 00:22:55,910
lot of different types of grass.

364
00:22:55,910 --> 00:22:59,865
And it is not always the most well-kept golf
courses out there.

365
00:22:59,865 --> 00:23:04,444
So I get why you understand so much about the
different grass types too.

366
00:23:04,664 --> 00:23:10,125
But that being said, what would be a drill or a
technique that you would use to eliminate

367
00:23:10,345 --> 00:23:15,500
something like that with the chunking, the
thinning, or even what I would call with me,

368
00:23:15,559 --> 00:23:16,360
the yips with that

369
00:23:16,360 --> 00:23:16,840
right hand.

370
00:23:17,080 --> 00:23:21,180
There's a lot of different things that could
possibly go wrong.

371
00:23:22,200 --> 00:23:27,180
So one of my favorite drills when you've got
the yips is taking your trail hand.

372
00:23:27,575 --> 00:23:27,734
K?

373
00:23:27,734 --> 00:23:32,295
So if you're a right-handed golfer, take your
right hand, put your left hand right here, and

374
00:23:32,295 --> 00:23:36,714
you pivot back together, and you just hit some
shots that are 10 yards.

375
00:23:37,174 --> 00:23:41,990
All you're trying to do is just feel the pivot,
feel the pivot.

376
00:23:42,930 --> 00:23:43,670
That's it.

377
00:23:43,970 --> 00:23:48,710
So it will be really difficult for this right
hand to get in there and go this way.

378
00:23:49,009 --> 00:23:52,470
You wanna just feel like it's moving all
together in unison.

379
00:23:52,769 --> 00:23:55,424
And that would be a great drill, a great drill
for you to do.

380
00:23:55,424 --> 00:23:59,845
If you feel like the right hand sometimes gets
a little too active, just have it on there.

381
00:24:00,144 --> 00:24:05,345
And then just feel like you pivot back, pivot
through, and allow that right hand and right

382
00:24:05,345 --> 00:24:07,650
arm to just kind of be a passenger to the
pivot.

383
00:24:07,890 --> 00:24:08,369
I love it.

384
00:24:08,369 --> 00:24:12,049
Now I've heard you in other interviews, and
you've talked about the fact that, you know,

385
00:24:12,210 --> 00:24:17,970
and you mentioned it even on our interview
without me even asking really about it, about

386
00:24:17,970 --> 00:24:23,075
how, you know, instructors will, a lot of times
when it comes to chipping, all your weight on

387
00:24:23,075 --> 00:24:27,335
the front foot, forward press, get that shaft
lean going and everything.

388
00:24:27,875 --> 00:24:29,795
You're a guy that doesn't really believe in
that.

389
00:24:29,795 --> 00:24:35,539
Now do you like the hand slightly forward, or
is it something to where you want it to be kind

390
00:24:35,539 --> 00:24:37,400
of in line with the club face?

391
00:24:38,180 --> 00:24:44,279
So here's what I would say is that there's a
time and place for all that stuff.

392
00:24:44,740 --> 00:24:45,240
Right?

393
00:24:45,619 --> 00:24:52,115
I think inside the 30 yards off of a tight
fairway lie, I'm not necessarily looking for

394
00:24:52,414 --> 00:24:53,954
compression of the golf ball.

395
00:24:54,335 --> 00:24:55,474
I want softness.

396
00:24:56,174 --> 00:25:00,755
So I don't need my hands forward because I
don't really want to compress this golf ball.

397
00:25:02,500 --> 00:25:07,299
So, you know, and again, the more that you lean
those hands forward, if you don't do anything,

398
00:25:07,299 --> 00:25:11,220
let's say, with the club face and you just
leave it square, that leading edge is going to

399
00:25:11,220 --> 00:25:16,119
present itself a lot more, and you're taking
away the bounce of the back edge of the club.

400
00:25:16,419 --> 00:25:23,914
So it's making that shot a little bit more
difficult or tough to pull off.

401
00:25:25,894 --> 00:25:28,695
So, you know, there's a time and place for all
of it.

402
00:25:28,695 --> 00:25:32,910
I think, like, one of my guys, Keith Mitchell,
that I've worked with for probably three years

403
00:25:32,910 --> 00:25:33,390
now.

404
00:25:33,390 --> 00:25:34,450
Cashmere Keith.

405
00:25:34,990 --> 00:25:35,390
Yeah.

406
00:25:35,390 --> 00:25:36,029
Great dude.

407
00:25:36,029 --> 00:25:38,269
And his short game's really improved.

408
00:25:38,269 --> 00:25:43,309
He's come from, like, you know, when we
started, he was like 200-something in strokes

409
00:25:43,309 --> 00:25:44,109
gained around the green.

410
00:25:44,109 --> 00:25:49,965
He's, I think, you know, 70th maybe last year
or the year before, and then maybe a 100th this

411
00:25:49,965 --> 00:25:50,205
year.

412
00:25:51,644 --> 00:25:56,605
But anyway, so he's one of those guys where he
said, look.

413
00:25:56,605 --> 00:25:58,144
You didn't teach me a technique.

414
00:25:58,840 --> 00:26:01,420
You didn't teach me a philosophy, a theory, or
whatever.

415
00:26:02,039 --> 00:26:05,640
You just basically explained to me, hey.

416
00:26:05,640 --> 00:26:12,200
If your hands are forward, you've basically
taken a 60-degree and turned it into a 55 or a

417
00:26:14,815 --> 00:26:21,375
If you stack weight on your front foot, okay,
you may get ball-first contact, but that angle

418
00:26:21,375 --> 00:26:23,154
of attack is going more down.

419
00:26:23,295 --> 00:26:25,075
That ball is gonna come out faster.

420
00:26:25,775 --> 00:26:30,195
So you just have to understand, like, is this
the right situation for that?

421
00:26:30,519 --> 00:26:30,759
Right?

422
00:26:30,759 --> 00:26:36,119
Is the pin in the back so that I can lean
forward, so I can put my hands forward, and

423
00:26:36,119 --> 00:26:39,099
this ball can come out low and get to that back
pin?

424
00:26:40,279 --> 00:26:45,884
So it's in my, you know, at the end of the day,
I think that one of the things that I like to

425
00:26:45,884 --> 00:26:52,625
explain to people is how these sort of inside
of 30 yards, how these ball speed accumulators,

426
00:26:53,244 --> 00:26:54,065
how they work.

427
00:26:54,444 --> 00:26:59,105
So if you stack more weight forward at setup,
that ball is gonna come out faster.

428
00:26:59,299 --> 00:27:02,519
You may get better contact, but the ball is
also gonna come out faster.

429
00:27:02,659 --> 00:27:04,339
How are you gonna compensate for that?

430
00:27:04,339 --> 00:27:05,539
Are you gonna open the club face?

431
00:27:05,539 --> 00:27:07,079
Are you gonna lean the shot back?

432
00:27:07,220 --> 00:27:12,099
Or do you wanna lean the shot forward, leave
the clubface there, and hit a more drivy shot

433
00:27:12,099 --> 00:27:13,159
to a back pin?

434
00:27:13,585 --> 00:27:18,465
So it just really depends on, you know, it's
like using that club, whether it's like the

435
00:27:18,465 --> 00:27:25,184
clubface, you twist it open or square, whether
it's the shaft, you lean it forward or back, or

436
00:27:25,184 --> 00:27:28,680
whether you take the shaft and you go up or
down with it.

437
00:27:28,840 --> 00:27:33,960
There's a lot of ways that you can manipulate
how much ball speed you're gonna get just

438
00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:34,700
through setup.

439
00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:38,519
And then we haven't even talked about, like,
you know, what you wanna do on the backswing.

440
00:27:38,519 --> 00:27:43,455
There's a variety of ways to be able to do it
on the backswing to be able to either create

441
00:27:43,455 --> 00:27:45,615
ball speed or not create ball speed.

442
00:27:45,615 --> 00:27:48,275
Just depends on what type of shot you're trying
to play.

443
00:27:49,615 --> 00:27:54,095
That is describing things in a way that I
understand now what you mean by short game

444
00:27:54,095 --> 00:27:54,575
chef.

445
00:27:54,575 --> 00:27:59,710
Those are all recipes to success there, and
it's all different ways of going about it,

446
00:27:59,710 --> 00:28:00,589
which is awesome.

447
00:28:00,589 --> 00:28:03,570
Like, I love hearing that because I feel like
too many instructors.

448
00:28:04,509 --> 00:28:09,230
Earmuffs if you're a golf instructor out there
and you love to teach in a box, but there's too

449
00:28:09,230 --> 00:28:13,274
many instructors out there that just teach one
way, and it's this way or the highway.

450
00:28:13,274 --> 00:28:19,034
I've had to fire coaches before, one of them
being an instructor out here in Arizona who is

451
00:28:19,034 --> 00:28:20,075
a pretty good instructor.

452
00:28:20,075 --> 00:28:25,740
It's just he's got a box system and wants you
to swing like Ben Hogan, and it's like, I

453
00:28:25,740 --> 00:28:26,700
can't, I can't do it.

454
00:28:26,700 --> 00:28:29,500
Like, I don't have the flexibility of a Ben
Hogan.

455
00:28:29,500 --> 00:28:33,500
Like, there's all these aspects that go into
it, and it's awesome to hear somebody like

456
00:28:33,500 --> 00:28:37,275
yourself talk about how, you know, there's so
many different ways to do it.

457
00:28:37,275 --> 00:28:41,115
You just need the right recipe in the right
situation in order to make that happen.

458
00:28:41,115 --> 00:28:43,295
So that's really cool to hear.

459
00:28:43,355 --> 00:28:47,515
I'm gonna ask you—I'm gonna selfishly ask
you—one other question about Bermuda grass.

460
00:28:47,515 --> 00:28:48,015
Okay?

461
00:28:48,154 --> 00:28:50,795
So Bermuda grass, we got that a lot out here in
Arizona.

462
00:28:50,795 --> 00:28:52,289
Now I'm a New York kid.

463
00:28:52,289 --> 00:28:54,130
I grew up in upstate New York.

464
00:28:54,130 --> 00:28:55,909
I've lived in the city for years.

465
00:28:56,210 --> 00:29:00,369
And before moving back out here to Arizona, I
played college golf out here at GCU.

466
00:29:00,369 --> 00:29:01,109
Go Lopes.

467
00:29:01,169 --> 00:29:05,089
But, that being said, I never really figured
out how to play in Bermuda.

468
00:29:05,089 --> 00:29:09,294
Like, whenever overseas comes in and though
it's wintertime, like, I'm great.

469
00:29:09,294 --> 00:29:11,394
Like, I'm fine around the greens.

470
00:29:11,615 --> 00:29:15,054
I wouldn't say that I'm phenomenal, but, like,
I'm good.

471
00:29:15,054 --> 00:29:15,454
Right?

472
00:29:15,454 --> 00:29:15,855
Yep.

473
00:29:15,855 --> 00:29:19,794
Now or, like, I would say an average, like,
scratch golfer.

474
00:29:21,730 --> 00:29:26,450
When the Bermuda comes, I am the worst short
game.

475
00:29:26,450 --> 00:29:32,865
Like, I become quickly like a 6 to 8 handicap
in no time around the greens.

476
00:29:33,105 --> 00:29:33,984
So I'm just curious.

477
00:29:33,984 --> 00:29:37,025
Do you have any kind of insights around just
Bermuda grass?

478
00:29:37,025 --> 00:29:40,565
They're under that fluffy or even when it's wet
soil down there?

479
00:29:41,265 --> 00:29:41,585
Yep.

480
00:29:41,585 --> 00:29:41,984
Yep.

481
00:29:41,984 --> 00:29:43,845
So, I mean, I grew up in Hawaii.

482
00:29:44,304 --> 00:29:51,029
So all Bermuda grass until just recently where
they started planting some paspalum, which is a

483
00:29:51,029 --> 00:29:52,470
little bit easier to play off of.

484
00:29:52,470 --> 00:29:58,230
But the Bermuda grass, you know, I will almost
always typically go down in loft.

485
00:29:58,230 --> 00:30:04,335
So if I'm usually chipping with my 60, I will
just immediately just go down in loft by 1, and

486
00:30:04,335 --> 00:30:06,275
I'll start I'll grab my 56.

487
00:30:08,255 --> 00:30:09,795
That would be where I would start.

488
00:30:10,174 --> 00:30:14,115
Somehow the 56, it's got that little bit square
face.

489
00:30:15,080 --> 00:30:18,059
It just works through the turf a little bit
better.

490
00:30:18,279 --> 00:30:19,900
So I would start there.

491
00:30:21,320 --> 00:30:23,559
There's also a couple of ways to do it.

492
00:30:23,559 --> 00:30:23,799
You know?

493
00:30:23,799 --> 00:30:26,759
You can depending on the lie.

494
00:30:26,759 --> 00:30:27,240
Right?

495
00:30:27,240 --> 00:30:28,785
It always starts with the lie.

496
00:30:28,865 --> 00:30:30,545
Like, that is number 1.

497
00:30:30,545 --> 00:30:32,625
You've got to always pay attention to the lie.

498
00:30:32,625 --> 00:30:35,744
If the lie is sitting up, it should be no
problem.

499
00:30:35,744 --> 00:30:36,465
You can be steep.

500
00:30:36,465 --> 00:30:37,424
You can be shallow.

501
00:30:37,424 --> 00:30:40,565
You can hit draw path, cut path, kind of
whatever you want.

502
00:30:40,705 --> 00:30:43,170
Or if it's down grain, you can do the same
thing.

503
00:30:43,890 --> 00:30:45,730
Now if it's into the grain Yeah.

504
00:30:45,730 --> 00:30:46,369
That this is

505
00:30:46,369 --> 00:30:47,170
where I'm struggling.

506
00:30:47,170 --> 00:30:47,890
This is this

507
00:30:47,890 --> 00:30:48,609
is this is the

508
00:30:48,609 --> 00:30:49,430
juice here.

509
00:30:49,809 --> 00:30:50,049
Yeah.

510
00:30:50,049 --> 00:30:54,450
If it's into the grain and it's sitting down,
it's gonna be a more difficult shot.

511
00:30:54,450 --> 00:31:02,855
I mean, I would say on average, let's say if
you if you spend a 20-yard shot at 5,000 RPMs,

512
00:31:03,154 --> 00:31:07,634
I would say on average if you've got an into
the grain Bermuda lie, it's gonna go down to

513
00:31:07,634 --> 00:31:09,335
probably like 3,000 RPMs.

514
00:31:10,369 --> 00:31:14,930
So just you gotta understand that it's not
gonna usually come out like this.

515
00:31:14,930 --> 00:31:19,170
It's gonna come out more knuckleball, lollipop
kind of a shot.

516
00:31:19,170 --> 00:31:19,570
Okay.

517
00:31:19,570 --> 00:31:21,009
So play for that.

518
00:31:21,009 --> 00:31:23,009
Don't be disappointed in that.

519
00:31:23,009 --> 00:31:26,485
It's just there's just too much grass that gets
caught in between.

520
00:31:26,485 --> 00:31:26,644
Right?

521
00:31:26,644 --> 00:31:30,485
If the ball's sitting down and it's into the
grain, there's too much grass that gets caught

522
00:31:30,485 --> 00:31:32,265
in between, and it's too difficult.

523
00:31:32,884 --> 00:31:35,205
So a couple ways you can do it.

524
00:31:35,205 --> 00:31:37,225
You can go, obviously, 56.

525
00:31:37,819 --> 00:31:39,519
Go down in loft, even 52.

526
00:31:39,740 --> 00:31:41,279
The lower the loft, the better.

527
00:31:41,339 --> 00:31:41,819
Okay.

528
00:31:41,819 --> 00:31:42,319
K?

529
00:31:43,180 --> 00:31:46,480
Granted that you don't have a shortsighted shot
to go with.

530
00:31:47,259 --> 00:31:51,279
But then I would I would go I would play around
with going handle higher at address.

531
00:31:51,934 --> 00:31:55,775
So you're engaging a little bit more of the
toe, so you're gonna get closer to the ball.

532
00:31:55,775 --> 00:31:57,234
Handle's gonna go higher.

533
00:31:58,255 --> 00:32:04,494
And then you can mess around with feeling a cut
path from there or feeling a draw path from

534
00:32:04,494 --> 00:32:04,994
there.

535
00:32:05,660 --> 00:32:11,660
Different players have different feels, and
it's not always the same thing, but I've seen

536
00:32:11,660 --> 00:32:14,880
success doing it both ways with that technique.

537
00:32:15,339 --> 00:32:18,319
Would you want the handle forward or a little
bit further back?

538
00:32:19,494 --> 00:32:22,055
I would go just barely slightly forward.

539
00:32:22,055 --> 00:32:24,394
So up and up and slightly forward.

540
00:32:24,775 --> 00:32:25,275
Gotcha.

541
00:32:25,414 --> 00:32:28,795
Because I think especially, it just depends on
how far down it's sitting.

542
00:32:29,174 --> 00:32:34,669
You may need a little bit more, you know, a
little bit more of this.

543
00:32:34,669 --> 00:32:39,869
So that handle going slightly forward would
help get you a little bit more this way to get

544
00:32:39,869 --> 00:32:41,250
down and go get that ball.

545
00:32:41,630 --> 00:32:42,130
Gotcha.

546
00:32:42,269 --> 00:32:48,095
What what kinda leads to that flub to where,
like, it's just all it like, you feel like you

547
00:32:48,095 --> 00:32:52,975
kinda swung it into there, but it's just turf
and the ball goes about 2 inches in front end.

548
00:32:52,975 --> 00:32:56,575
Let me tell you, this happened to me at the
member-guest, and I was absolutely embarrassed.

549
00:32:56,575 --> 00:33:01,920
I was just like, put me in a cave and don't let
me come out of there for at least seven days.

550
00:33:01,920 --> 00:33:03,140
I don't wanna see anybody.

551
00:33:04,160 --> 00:33:04,600
That is just

552
00:33:04,799 --> 00:33:09,759
You know, the other way, the other way to play
that shot too depends on how firm or soft the

553
00:33:09,759 --> 00:33:10,660
soil is.

554
00:33:10,720 --> 00:33:14,744
But the other way to play that shot is to
almost play it like a bunker shot.

555
00:33:14,744 --> 00:33:20,445
If it's sitting far enough down, you can play
it like a bunker shot and just play for the,

556
00:33:22,744 --> 00:33:23,465
you know what I mean?

557
00:33:23,465 --> 00:33:24,025
Just play for the

558
00:33:24,184 --> 00:33:28,529
Like, I have, like, when I have been successful
in Bermuda, that's what I've done.

559
00:33:28,529 --> 00:33:32,369
I've basically played it like a bunker shot and
just kind of tried to blast it out of there or

560
00:33:32,369 --> 00:33:38,450
even kind of just have one of those shots where
you kind of just stick it into the ground to

561
00:33:38,450 --> 00:33:40,289
where there's no kind of follow-through.

562
00:33:40,289 --> 00:33:44,045
You just kind of jam it, and you have some
speed going in there.

563
00:33:44,105 --> 00:33:49,945
Those are, but again, I hadn't been playing in
a while, and it's one of those things where

564
00:33:50,025 --> 00:33:54,519
when all of a sudden you've had two, three-week
stints where you haven't picked up a golf club,

565
00:33:54,519 --> 00:33:56,200
and then you gotta go play a member guest.

566
00:33:56,200 --> 00:33:58,140
And all of a sudden you get into that
situation.

567
00:33:58,599 --> 00:34:04,200
It's like I started just—that's why I was like,
it's 100% the yips because I am terrified right

568
00:34:04,200 --> 00:34:04,700
now.

569
00:34:04,759 --> 00:34:05,640
Well, this, yeah.

570
00:34:05,640 --> 00:34:10,465
I mean, the stab if you haven't been practicing
and you get super steep with it and stabby,

571
00:34:11,005 --> 00:34:12,545
poof, that's a brutal one.

572
00:34:13,324 --> 00:34:15,324
It's just hard to time up.

573
00:34:15,324 --> 00:34:16,445
It's hard to time up.

574
00:34:16,445 --> 00:34:16,925
It is.

575
00:34:16,925 --> 00:34:18,045
It certainly is.

576
00:34:18,045 --> 00:34:18,445
Trust me.

577
00:34:18,445 --> 00:34:22,204
I know firsthand after last weekend exactly how
that goes.

578
00:34:22,204 --> 00:34:29,273
Now, let's move into one of the unfiltered
parts of this podcast because this is an

579
00:34:29,273 --> 00:34:30,260
Unfiltered Golf Podcast.

580
00:34:30,260 --> 00:34:34,420
So if you have a swear word or two you wanna
drop in there, feel free to go ahead and do so.

581
00:34:34,420 --> 00:34:35,460
That's always welcome.

582
00:34:35,460 --> 00:34:42,125
But with social media, and granted, like,
you've gotten onto social media where a friend

583
00:34:42,125 --> 00:34:45,085
helped you out and was like, hey, you need to
create a name and everything.

584
00:34:45,085 --> 00:34:49,744
So you weren't necessarily a social media
expert coming into this entire thing.

585
00:34:49,965 --> 00:34:53,664
And there's a lot of instructor rivalries that
go on.

586
00:34:54,069 --> 00:34:59,349
And it's been interesting because I've kinda
seen you from the outside in around kinda how

587
00:34:59,349 --> 00:35:02,069
you've interacted and so forth on social media.

588
00:35:02,069 --> 00:35:06,469
And I know at one point, there were ways,
especially when Joseph Mayo, for instance, with

589
00:35:06,469 --> 00:35:11,644
Viktor Hovland, you know, was talking about
getting steep and everything, and people were

590
00:35:11,644 --> 00:35:16,684
trying to drag you into this battle with him,
and you didn't really do it.

591
00:35:16,684 --> 00:35:19,744
I mean, how'd you kinda stay out of this whole
thing?

592
00:35:21,030 --> 00:35:21,269
Yeah.

593
00:35:21,269 --> 00:35:22,710
I mean, I think it's hard.

594
00:35:22,710 --> 00:35:26,890
I think, you know, I've got great respect for
all the coaches.

595
00:35:27,110 --> 00:35:33,030
It's you know, we're all at some level, we're
all just guessing, and we're just trying to do

596
00:35:33,030 --> 00:35:37,864
our best to guess and help our players with,
you know, like, your flaws.

597
00:35:38,644 --> 00:35:45,125
They may be similar to somebody else's flaws,
but if I tell you to do one thing, you may

598
00:35:45,125 --> 00:35:47,625
react in a totally different way than Player B.

599
00:35:47,765 --> 00:35:52,829
And so it's always about trying to, you know,
hey, try this and then let's get some feedback

600
00:35:52,829 --> 00:35:53,489
on it.

601
00:35:53,630 --> 00:35:54,109
Try this.

602
00:35:54,109 --> 00:35:55,730
Let's see how your body responds.

603
00:35:55,949 --> 00:35:59,250
Let's see how you react to being in this
position or that position.

604
00:36:00,030 --> 00:36:02,829
And you just never you never really know.

605
00:36:02,829 --> 00:36:09,695
So it's like you're sort of professionally
guessing a lot, but the more that you do it and

606
00:36:09,695 --> 00:36:11,635
the more that you see, the better you get.

607
00:36:13,054 --> 00:36:19,389
So, you know, it's like there's some really
smart people in the golf instruction industry.

608
00:36:20,889 --> 00:36:27,529
I think that, you know, the social media stuff,
I always wanted to create a platform where

609
00:36:27,529 --> 00:36:30,329
people would—I wanted to help people get
better.

610
00:36:30,329 --> 00:36:31,425
That was number one.

611
00:36:31,664 --> 00:36:34,644
I wanted to make the short game sexy and fun.

612
00:36:34,864 --> 00:36:37,844
That was kind of number two, like, sexy, fun,
entertaining.

613
00:36:38,945 --> 00:36:43,525
And that was what the goal was.

614
00:36:44,440 --> 00:36:52,119
And then as the steep movement came along, I
was—I think in my opinion, I think that, you

615
00:36:52,119 --> 00:36:56,940
know, typical tour players are between 5-8
degrees of angle of attack down.

616
00:36:57,719 --> 00:37:06,094
I think for a very extreme shot, they'll go 12
to 15 degrees down, but I think it's more like

617
00:37:06,795 --> 00:37:11,781
5 or 10 times per year that they would hit a
shot like that, and that would not necessarily

618
00:37:11,781 --> 00:37:13,619
be their stock shot.

619
00:37:14,579 --> 00:37:20,740
So when someone comes along and says, "Hey,
this is the shot you should be playing all the

620
00:37:20,740 --> 00:37:24,740
time around the greens," I'm like, I don't
necessarily agree with that because I don't

621
00:37:24,740 --> 00:37:28,305
think you need maximum spin or maximum low
trajectory.

622
00:37:28,305 --> 00:37:33,164
There are gonna be times when I want some
height, when I want some mid trajectory, some

623
00:37:33,485 --> 00:37:38,285
softness, some land angle that's a little
steeper because greens are firm and greens are

624
00:37:38,285 --> 00:37:38,785
fast.

625
00:37:39,324 --> 00:37:47,119
So, you know, I think that our philosophies
were definitely different.

626
00:37:48,059 --> 00:37:52,699
Mine comes from more of like a, "Hey, I've been
out there and I've played and I've seen, and

627
00:37:52,699 --> 00:37:57,175
I've talked to all these guys, the Steve
Stricker and the Matt Kuchars, the Cam Smiths."

628
00:37:57,175 --> 00:38:02,375
Like, I've talked to all these guys about their
philosophy and what they like to see with the

629
00:38:02,375 --> 00:38:08,360
golf ball, and how they like to see it landing
and what they like to see spin-wise.

630
00:38:08,360 --> 00:38:13,559
These guys are not going for maximum spin and
maximum low trajectory on every shot.

631
00:38:13,559 --> 00:38:14,039
Yeah.

632
00:38:14,039 --> 00:38:19,880
Those are just the shots that make it on TV
because it looks cool to the eye.

633
00:38:19,880 --> 00:38:20,119
Yeah.

634
00:38:20,119 --> 00:38:21,000
The low spinny.

635
00:38:21,000 --> 00:38:24,255
All of a sudden, it hits twice and then checks
up.

636
00:38:24,734 --> 00:38:26,114
I know what you're talking about.

637
00:38:26,255 --> 00:38:33,694
Super cool shot, but it's also a shot that
players use, you know, on a rare occasion

638
00:38:33,694 --> 00:38:36,674
because it's not the most predictable shot.

639
00:38:37,760 --> 00:38:40,500
So guys that are playing for their living, they
want predictability.

640
00:38:41,119 --> 00:38:41,359
Yeah.

641
00:38:41,359 --> 00:38:41,859
Consistent.

642
00:38:42,159 --> 00:38:43,599
They want consistency.

643
00:38:43,599 --> 00:38:44,500
They want predictability.

644
00:38:45,280 --> 00:38:50,960
And that's where I think, you know, some of our
philosophies differed a bit.

645
00:38:50,960 --> 00:38:53,984
And Joe and I have, you know, we've known each
other for a long time.

646
00:38:53,984 --> 00:38:58,945
And so we've had conversations about this, and
we're like, I think you just need to tell the

647
00:38:58,945 --> 00:38:59,744
whole story.

648
00:38:59,744 --> 00:39:02,465
Like this shot, the low one that you're talking
about.

649
00:39:02,465 --> 00:39:02,965
Yes.

650
00:39:03,105 --> 00:39:11,559
It's a good skill to have, but I would never,
ever, ever want an amateur golfer to try to be

651
00:39:11,559 --> 00:39:13,980
12 to 15 degrees down on every shot.

652
00:39:14,199 --> 00:39:18,059
I just don't think that it's a, I don't think
it's a recipe for success.

653
00:39:18,135 --> 00:39:23,414
I've seen too many amateurs that come to me on
the steep side and that are just deathly afraid

654
00:39:23,414 --> 00:39:25,275
of the ground and ground interaction.

655
00:39:25,894 --> 00:39:33,890
So I like seeing guys that are more sweeping
and brushing, brushing of the ground, because I

656
00:39:33,890 --> 00:39:37,489
think it, again, it makes golf a little bit
easier.

657
00:39:37,489 --> 00:39:39,430
It makes chipping a little bit easier.

658
00:39:40,050 --> 00:39:42,610
And at the end of the day, that's what I'm all
about.

659
00:39:42,610 --> 00:39:47,625
And so I just, you know, I think that, as Joe
and I have had these conversations, that I

660
00:39:47,625 --> 00:39:54,344
don't know if he necessarily sees my side
fully, because he looks at it directly as the

661
00:39:54,344 --> 00:39:54,844
numbers.

662
00:39:56,905 --> 00:40:01,679
And I'm looking at it as like, okay, well, if
we're just looking at the numbers and you're

663
00:40:01,679 --> 00:40:07,840
trying to produce a perfectly low trajectory
with perfect maximum amount of spin, that would

664
00:40:07,840 --> 00:40:13,514
be like staying in a poker hand and having,
like, a 5, 6, an 8, and a 9 and just hanging on

665
00:40:13,514 --> 00:40:17,534
to the river and waiting for that 7 because
that would be the perfect hand.

666
00:40:18,554 --> 00:40:18,795
Okay.

667
00:40:18,795 --> 00:40:23,135
It would be the perfect hand, but what the what
are the percentages of that actually happening?

668
00:40:23,355 --> 00:40:27,010
I don't think they're that I don't think
they're quite as high as if you like, you know

669
00:40:27,010 --> 00:40:27,090
what?

670
00:40:27,090 --> 00:40:29,170
I'm gonna live live and fight another day.

671
00:40:29,170 --> 00:40:32,309
I wanna make sure that, you know, this is a
little bit shallower.

672
00:40:32,530 --> 00:40:39,410
If I happen to make a mistake here, my worst
putt is still 4 to 6 feet from the hole where

673
00:40:39,410 --> 00:40:44,985
if you're 12 to 15 down and you make a mistake
an inch behind the golf ball, you're chipping

674
00:40:44,985 --> 00:40:45,644
it again.

675
00:40:46,025 --> 00:40:47,385
That's a bad mistake.

676
00:40:47,385 --> 00:40:49,085
You can't make that mistake.

677
00:40:49,625 --> 00:40:53,784
Funny you say that because earlier today, we're
recording this on Thursday.

678
00:40:53,784 --> 00:40:54,824
This will come out later.

679
00:40:54,824 --> 00:40:59,010
This is Thursday, August 29, where the Tour
Championship is going on.

680
00:40:59,010 --> 00:40:59,410
Right?

681
00:40:59,410 --> 00:41:05,489
Viktor Hovland was out there earlier today, and
sure enough, one of the other analysts was

682
00:41:05,489 --> 00:41:11,655
trying to get Immelman to get in on Mao because
apparently, he does not agree with Mayo

683
00:41:11,655 --> 00:41:14,074
whatsoever in regards to his philosophy.

684
00:41:14,135 --> 00:41:18,855
And even with Viktor, he's like, yeah, it might
have worked for Viktor for a while, but there's

685
00:41:18,855 --> 00:41:20,235
a bell curve to this.

686
00:41:20,454 --> 00:41:27,579
And that's why you're seeing now where like his
short game isn't always great anymore where he

687
00:41:27,579 --> 00:41:28,800
kinda peaked with it.

688
00:41:29,019 --> 00:41:32,300
And now he's starting to see some of the
inconsistencies that come with it.

689
00:41:32,300 --> 00:41:35,339
I felt like that was pretty interesting to hear
as well.

690
00:41:35,339 --> 00:41:35,420
Yeah.

691
00:41:35,420 --> 00:41:37,440
I would have loved to have seen that.

692
00:41:39,579 --> 00:41:41,385
Send me that clip when you get a minute.

693
00:41:42,105 --> 00:41:44,744
But I do think it's always about a balance.

694
00:41:44,744 --> 00:41:45,065
Right?

695
00:41:45,065 --> 00:41:48,925
Like that's an important shot to have, to
understand how to hit that shot.

696
00:41:49,304 --> 00:41:52,744
Because again, there will be a need for that
shot at some point.

697
00:41:52,744 --> 00:41:54,269
So it's important to have that.

698
00:41:54,750 --> 00:42:01,650
But there's also a big need for a
mid-trajectory shot from, like, 10 to 30 yards

699
00:42:02,110 --> 00:42:06,449
that you can trust, that lands on the green and
stops within four paces.

700
00:42:07,070 --> 00:42:13,855
If I'm 12 to 15 degrees down from about, let's
say, 20 to 30 yards, this ball is coming in hot

701
00:42:13,855 --> 00:42:17,054
and low, and it's stopping from when it lands
on the green.

702
00:42:17,054 --> 00:42:22,594
It's stopping 7, 8, 9, 10 yards from when it
originally landed.

703
00:42:23,079 --> 00:42:28,760
And if that pin is on four paces off the front
edge, you're gonna want something that has a

704
00:42:28,760 --> 00:42:32,699
little bit of land angle steepness plus some
spin.

705
00:42:32,839 --> 00:42:35,559
So you want to be able to blend those together.

706
00:42:35,559 --> 00:42:41,255
So, you know, it's like, I just think that
there are so many shots that you can have in a

707
00:42:41,255 --> 00:42:42,635
short game repertoire.

708
00:42:43,335 --> 00:42:47,755
In my personal belief, I would rather start
with, like, hey, let's get our baseline.

709
00:42:47,894 --> 00:42:48,375
Mhmm.

710
00:42:48,375 --> 00:42:54,409
Let's get our baseline standard pitch shot
down, and then we can hit the crazy angle of

711
00:42:54,409 --> 00:42:54,969
attack down.

712
00:42:54,969 --> 00:42:56,329
We can hit the crazy shallow.

713
00:42:56,329 --> 00:43:04,170
And I mean, I've seen guys, I've measured guys,
that have hit up on it, on a, like a high, a

714
00:43:04,170 --> 00:43:06,190
high spinner from like 20 yards.

715
00:43:06,675 --> 00:43:09,335
They have hit up a degree to four degrees.

716
00:43:09,795 --> 00:43:10,114
Right?

717
00:43:10,114 --> 00:43:14,055
They're actually hitting up on the golf ball,
sitting on a tight fairway lie.

718
00:43:14,755 --> 00:43:20,914
So, like and the ball goes up like this and it
lands on the green and it almost spins back.

719
00:43:20,914 --> 00:43:25,500
It's got that much spin on it because the land
angle is so steep that it bounces once and then

720
00:43:25,500 --> 00:43:26,319
spins back.

721
00:43:26,779 --> 00:43:32,299
So that ball essentially has more stopping
power, but you're hitting up on it, which means

722
00:43:32,299 --> 00:43:35,679
that you're hitting the ground and then you're
hitting the golf ball on the way up.

723
00:43:36,155 --> 00:43:44,655
So there's a good argument to be able to have
all those shots.

724
00:43:45,514 --> 00:43:52,619
My constant chat with Joe is to tell the full
story.

725
00:43:52,920 --> 00:43:59,000
The shot that you're telling is one-tenth of
short game, maybe even one-twentieth of short

726
00:43:59,000 --> 00:43:59,480
game.

727
00:43:59,480 --> 00:44:00,760
You've got shots out of the rough.

728
00:44:00,760 --> 00:44:01,400
You've got bunkers.

729
00:44:01,400 --> 00:44:02,200
You got plug lies.

730
00:44:02,200 --> 00:44:03,079
You got downhill lies.

731
00:44:03,079 --> 00:44:03,960
You got uphill lies.

732
00:44:03,960 --> 00:44:08,114
You got, you know, bump-and-runs, you got pitch
shots, you've got higher pitch shots, you got

733
00:44:08,114 --> 00:44:08,514
flat.

734
00:44:08,514 --> 00:44:12,214
I mean, that's just 10 shots I named right
there off the top of my head.

735
00:44:12,514 --> 00:44:16,934
Not to mention the, you know, you got a cut
spinner or maybe a low draw one to a back pin.

736
00:44:17,315 --> 00:44:25,019
There's so many shots, and he's hammering this
one so hard that my discussion with him has

737
00:44:25,019 --> 00:44:28,400
always been about telling the full story of
short game.

738
00:44:29,260 --> 00:44:35,005
Don't just hammer this one thing because it's a
little bit misleading to the public to just

739
00:44:35,005 --> 00:44:36,144
hammer that one thing.

740
00:44:36,605 --> 00:44:41,965
I'm in agreement, and I also just figured out
that I'm steep because everything that you

741
00:44:41,965 --> 00:44:44,364
just—I hit that low spinny one.

742
00:44:44,364 --> 00:44:50,619
And whenever the pin is, like, middle back,
like, I hit that little, all of a sudden, two

743
00:44:50,619 --> 00:44:54,539
hops and checks, and now I'm realizing too.

744
00:44:54,539 --> 00:44:55,099
I'm like, wow.

745
00:44:55,099 --> 00:44:55,340
Yeah.

746
00:44:55,340 --> 00:44:59,200
We're talking about how inconsistent this
particular shot is.

747
00:44:59,340 --> 00:45:04,295
So when I'm practicing all the time or I'm
getting out there a lot, that shot can work.

748
00:45:04,295 --> 00:45:09,674
However, I stop, and I've got these big gaps in
between when I practice or play, and I'm like,

749
00:45:09,894 --> 00:45:10,714
oh, shit.

750
00:45:11,574 --> 00:45:14,295
It makes me just feel like, how dumb could you
be, man?

751
00:45:14,295 --> 00:45:15,335
Like, just figure it out.

752
00:45:15,335 --> 00:45:18,210
Like, you gotta get a little bit more shallow
on here.

753
00:45:18,690 --> 00:45:23,730
So, again, just it's awesome to hear you talk
about it because I'm realizing stuff in my

754
00:45:23,730 --> 00:45:24,130
game.

755
00:45:24,130 --> 00:45:29,250
So I know the audience has to be picking up
things for their own game as well, which is

756
00:45:29,250 --> 00:45:33,175
what I love having these conversations,
especially with instructors like yourself, to

757
00:45:33,175 --> 00:45:34,155
where I'm like, wow.

758
00:45:34,375 --> 00:45:35,514
This is so insightful.

759
00:45:36,135 --> 00:45:37,514
And, yeah.

760
00:45:37,655 --> 00:45:38,135
Anyway, yeah.

761
00:45:38,135 --> 00:45:40,214
Because I mean, you know, it's like, you know,
yeah.

762
00:45:40,214 --> 00:45:46,519
It's like we go, we go, you know, it's like my
philosophy out of the bunker is not to be wide

763
00:45:46,519 --> 00:45:47,260
and shallow.

764
00:45:47,320 --> 00:45:49,559
Like, I like a lot of steepness in the bunker.

765
00:45:49,559 --> 00:45:52,300
I think that that's how you are supposed to
play a bunker shot.

766
00:45:52,360 --> 00:45:53,659
Same thing out of the rough.

767
00:45:54,280 --> 00:45:58,920
My guess would be that you're way better out of
the rough and out of the bunker than you are on

768
00:45:58,920 --> 00:46:00,440
a standard 20-yard pitch shot.

769
00:46:00,440 --> 00:46:02,735
That would be my, I mean, that would be my
guess.

770
00:46:02,735 --> 00:46:03,235
100

771
00:46:03,934 --> 00:46:06,355
Because you get steeper, and steepness is
needed there.

772
00:46:06,575 --> 00:46:11,934
If you're steep on a tight fairway lie, you
don't really need that steepness because the

773
00:46:11,934 --> 00:46:13,135
ball is just sitting right there.

774
00:46:13,135 --> 00:46:16,275
It's not like you gotta go down and go get it.

775
00:46:16,550 --> 00:46:23,190
You only really wanna go way steep if you're
really trying to create a ton of spin, like

776
00:46:23,190 --> 00:46:24,230
maximum spin.

777
00:46:24,230 --> 00:46:24,730
Yeah.

778
00:46:25,829 --> 00:46:34,425
But I also would say you can stop the ball even
faster if you blend a land angle that's steeper

779
00:46:34,805 --> 00:46:36,025
with a lot of spin.

780
00:46:36,805 --> 00:46:41,045
So if you blend those two together, now all of
a sudden you've got a golf ball that's stopping

781
00:46:41,045 --> 00:46:44,559
within two paces, two and a half paces of where
it's landing.

782
00:46:44,559 --> 00:46:45,280
That would

783
00:46:45,280 --> 00:46:45,859
be nice.

784
00:46:46,000 --> 00:46:47,859
That's true stopping power, right?

785
00:46:48,079 --> 00:46:48,239
Yeah.

786
00:46:48,239 --> 00:46:48,719
That is.

787
00:46:48,719 --> 00:46:49,519
So you got yeah.

788
00:46:49,519 --> 00:46:54,880
So, you know, but this whole thing has just
gotten, you know, it's just like he's dug his

789
00:46:54,880 --> 00:46:58,574
feet in the ground and I'm, like, pushing back
because I'm, like, look.

790
00:46:58,574 --> 00:47:04,574
I think that, like, it's the fair thing for the
people out there is to understand that short

791
00:47:04,574 --> 00:47:08,675
game consists of a lot of different shots.

792
00:47:08,734 --> 00:47:12,239
A lot of different techniques go into hitting
these shots.

793
00:47:12,480 --> 00:47:16,179
You're not gonna play a bump and run the same
way that you play a bunker shot.

794
00:47:16,480 --> 00:47:22,099
You're not gonna play a flop shot the same way
that you play a standard pitch shot.

795
00:47:22,239 --> 00:47:30,375
So, like, there's a variety of techniques, and
it's a disservice to the people that are out

796
00:47:30,375 --> 00:47:34,614
there watching to say that this is the only way
that you can do it.

797
00:47:34,614 --> 00:47:36,454
I just think that's I think it's a disservice.

798
00:47:36,454 --> 00:47:41,780
I just don't think it's I don't think it it, it
doesn't help the public get any better.

799
00:47:41,780 --> 00:47:44,599
The public needs to know, like, these need to
be compartmentalized.

800
00:47:44,980 --> 00:47:47,000
They're very, very different shots.

801
00:47:47,700 --> 00:47:51,640
That is the one pet peeve that I have around
instruction.

802
00:47:52,355 --> 00:47:57,255
And just the that's why it's tough when I asked
you early on about general advice.

803
00:47:57,394 --> 00:47:59,635
Like, what would you give to the average
golfer?

804
00:47:59,635 --> 00:48:04,594
Because essentially and you answered that
really, really well, and it leads into your

805
00:48:04,594 --> 00:48:10,389
entire philosophy about everything around the
short game and how many different recipes you

806
00:48:10,389 --> 00:48:10,889
need.

807
00:48:11,109 --> 00:48:14,549
But it's my biggest pet peeve is that people
are just like, no.

808
00:48:14,549 --> 00:48:18,150
This is the one way that you have to do this.

809
00:48:18,150 --> 00:48:19,029
And it's like right.

810
00:48:19,269 --> 00:48:19,670
No.

811
00:48:19,670 --> 00:48:21,289
There's different body types.

812
00:48:21,554 --> 00:48:22,855
People move differently.

813
00:48:23,155 --> 00:48:26,835
Like, there's all these different aspects that
go into it that it's just like, hang on a

814
00:48:26,835 --> 00:48:27,335
second.

815
00:48:27,875 --> 00:48:32,775
You're crazy if you think it's one size fits
all for everybody out there.

816
00:48:33,234 --> 00:48:37,809
But you also have to, from my perspective too,
I also sit there and I'm like, alright.

817
00:48:37,809 --> 00:48:43,969
From a media standpoint or, like, trying to get
attention or attract an audience and so forth,

818
00:48:43,969 --> 00:48:47,510
you can't like, some people will do it just for
that.

819
00:48:47,890 --> 00:48:54,994
And I like, interesting enough, like, I don't
know Joe, but I would say that part of it

820
00:48:54,994 --> 00:49:00,855
probably is to get his name out there more and
more and more around his one philosophy.

821
00:49:01,235 --> 00:49:06,009
And the more the people fight back at him, the
better it is for him because, yeah, it's going

822
00:49:06,009 --> 00:49:07,289
to lead to more attention.

823
00:49:07,289 --> 00:49:10,650
So, I mean, his name got dropped on a broadcast
today because of that.

824
00:49:10,650 --> 00:49:10,889
Right?

825
00:49:10,889 --> 00:49:12,329
So it's like, alright.

826
00:49:12,329 --> 00:49:17,150
This is, this is interesting to see the
different aspects to it.

827
00:49:17,289 --> 00:49:24,414
I mean, even, you know, Ping came out with a
study last week that said that on that they

828
00:49:24,414 --> 00:49:30,655
measured 150 different players, mostly good
players and poor and tour players, and they

829
00:49:30,655 --> 00:49:32,675
measured over 5,000 shots.

830
00:49:32,735 --> 00:49:42,199
And they measured it on a map, and 86% of those
shots that that there was 15, 30, and 60 yard

831
00:49:42,199 --> 00:49:42,699
shots.

832
00:49:43,079 --> 00:49:52,155
On 86% of those shots, the leading edge of the
club entered the ground before there was ball

833
00:49:52,155 --> 00:49:52,655
contact.

834
00:49:52,875 --> 00:49:53,855
Ain't that crazy?

835
00:49:54,474 --> 00:49:57,994
So it's like in my mind, I'm like, well, if
you're coming in this way.

836
00:49:58,315 --> 00:49:58,795
Yeah.

837
00:49:58,875 --> 00:50:05,069
Right, and you that leading edge enters the
ground before the golf ball, boy, you're in a

838
00:50:05,069 --> 00:50:06,449
world of trouble potentially.

839
00:50:06,909 --> 00:50:07,389
Uh-huh.

840
00:50:07,389 --> 00:50:14,190
I think if you're coming in more shallow this
way, number one, the bounce is gonna help keep

841
00:50:14,190 --> 00:50:15,855
you up on top of the ground.

842
00:50:15,934 --> 00:50:16,094
Right?

843
00:50:16,094 --> 00:50:17,934
The bounce is gonna keep you up on top of the
ground.

844
00:50:17,934 --> 00:50:22,335
If you enter in a little early, bounce will
keep you on top of the ground, which keeps you

845
00:50:22,335 --> 00:50:25,074
hitting those lower grooves, which keeps that
ball flight down.

846
00:50:25,614 --> 00:50:33,750
And so I, you know, in my estimation, if 86% of
the time, that leading edge is entering the

847
00:50:33,750 --> 00:50:40,950
ground first, I think it's important to learn
how to use the ground properly so that it works

848
00:50:40,950 --> 00:50:45,930
in your favor and that the ground does not
become something that you fear.

849
00:50:46,974 --> 00:50:47,214
Yeah.

850
00:50:47,214 --> 00:50:49,214
Because it's something I fear right now.

851
00:50:49,214 --> 00:50:49,714
100%.

852
00:50:50,574 --> 00:50:52,734
Let's get into your online program.

853
00:50:52,734 --> 00:50:59,714
I want to give you some time here to talk about
the Short Game Chef online program because I've

854
00:51:00,175 --> 00:51:04,200
sat there, in preparation for this interview,
and I went through stuff.

855
00:51:04,200 --> 00:51:05,400
And I'm like, wow.

856
00:51:05,400 --> 00:51:06,940
This is really robust.

857
00:51:07,400 --> 00:51:12,920
Like, you have all these different scenarios
and all these different things that could

858
00:51:12,920 --> 00:51:18,264
happen in the short game, and you've got these
little digestible videos that you talked about

859
00:51:18,484 --> 00:51:21,444
as a part of this, for your online program.

860
00:51:21,444 --> 00:51:25,625
And I know there's been a ton of instructors
out there that have launched online programs.

861
00:51:25,684 --> 00:51:26,184
Right?

862
00:51:26,405 --> 00:51:28,409
And a lot of them don't work.

863
00:51:28,809 --> 00:51:34,269
What was different about yours is not only are
they digestible, but they're little recipes.

864
00:51:34,329 --> 00:51:36,250
I mean, once again, it goes back to your name.

865
00:51:36,250 --> 00:51:42,505
It's too easy to relate the two because they're
little recipes for each and every aspect.

866
00:51:42,505 --> 00:51:50,184
And, like, with short game, a lot of times, you
need that more than, let's say, oh, you need to

867
00:51:50,184 --> 00:51:53,244
be in this exact position here and do this.

868
00:51:53,550 --> 00:51:58,110
It's a little bit more philosophy-driven and,
like, yeah, there's aspects like you said to

869
00:51:58,110 --> 00:51:58,750
where it's like, okay.

870
00:51:58,750 --> 00:52:01,570
Your hands need to be a little bit lower than
they normally are.

871
00:52:01,869 --> 00:52:05,010
This is how you're slightly forward or slightly
back.

872
00:52:05,230 --> 00:52:09,734
So talk to us a little bit about how you
decided that this was the right way to go

873
00:52:09,734 --> 00:52:14,375
about, you know, helping the masses because not
everybody can come out to Arizona and get a

874
00:52:14,375 --> 00:52:15,835
personalized lesson with you.

875
00:52:16,054 --> 00:52:16,554
Totally.

876
00:52:16,775 --> 00:52:17,014
Yeah.

877
00:52:17,014 --> 00:52:18,534
And that was sort of the thing.

878
00:52:18,534 --> 00:52:24,000
Like, my thought process was, like, I want to
be able to push this and help the entire world

879
00:52:24,000 --> 00:52:28,239
just have a better understanding of chipping
and pitching and play out of the rough and

880
00:52:28,239 --> 00:52:32,880
bunkers and flop shots and bump-and-runs and,
you know, hitting little bellied wedges and

881
00:52:32,880 --> 00:52:34,880
putting with your hybrid, like all that stuff.

882
00:52:34,880 --> 00:52:35,380
Putting.

883
00:52:36,515 --> 00:52:41,954
I wanted just to be able to put it all out
there, and so I organized it in a way where

884
00:52:42,275 --> 00:52:44,535
there's a bunch of different collections.

885
00:52:44,994 --> 00:52:49,429
So the collection, let's say a collection would
be Cure the Yips.

886
00:52:49,809 --> 00:52:51,329
We've got a collection on there, Cure the Yips.

887
00:52:51,329 --> 00:52:58,309
Just 26 videos in there walking you through
step by step as to how to cure the Yips.

888
00:52:58,369 --> 00:52:59,250
What faults?

889
00:52:59,250 --> 00:52:59,989
What fixes?

890
00:53:00,849 --> 00:53:02,070
How things go together?

891
00:53:02,130 --> 00:53:03,030
Certain matchups?

892
00:53:03,744 --> 00:53:07,105
And it just goes step by step all the way
through, and you get through it.

893
00:53:07,105 --> 00:53:12,164
We've had probably over, like, 40 or 50 people
just in the online program.

894
00:53:12,545 --> 00:53:17,159
I haven't even touched in person, but they've
just gone through the online portion of it, and

895
00:53:17,159 --> 00:53:18,920
these people have been like, oh my gosh.

896
00:53:18,920 --> 00:53:20,519
Like, my yips are gone.

897
00:53:20,519 --> 00:53:22,299
Like, you've saved my golf game.

898
00:53:23,559 --> 00:53:26,699
I actually ran into a guy in Augusta, Georgia,
this year.

899
00:53:26,839 --> 00:53:32,704
I was working with Tom Kim, and I go to dinner,
and I walk to the bathroom, and this guy kind

900
00:53:32,704 --> 00:53:38,224
of looks at me, and then I walk back, and he
walks up to me and he's like, can I give you

901
00:53:38,224 --> 00:53:39,105
the biggest bear hug?

902
00:53:39,105 --> 00:53:40,864
And I was like, yeah.

903
00:53:40,864 --> 00:53:46,619
And this guy's like a little shorter, big,
stocky dude, strong guy, and he gives me this

904
00:53:46,619 --> 00:53:49,179
bear hug and he's like, you saved my life.

905
00:53:49,179 --> 00:53:50,780
You saved my golf life.

906
00:53:50,780 --> 00:53:52,139
And I was like, okay.

907
00:53:52,139 --> 00:53:52,859
You gotta tell me.

908
00:53:52,859 --> 00:53:54,380
Like, what he says, look.

909
00:53:54,380 --> 00:53:55,199
I'm a surgeon.

910
00:53:55,500 --> 00:54:02,635
I operate with my hands all day long, and I
pride myself on having the smoothest hands for

911
00:54:02,635 --> 00:54:03,375
my surgeries.

912
00:54:03,755 --> 00:54:09,835
And he said every time I went out to play, my
hands would let me down and I would yip it

913
00:54:09,835 --> 00:54:10,894
every single time.

914
00:54:11,034 --> 00:54:16,269
But your program got me back to understanding,
like, how to use my hands, how to use my body,

915
00:54:16,730 --> 00:54:18,590
what the club is supposed to be doing.

916
00:54:18,809 --> 00:54:23,630
And so it was really, really neat to just to
see his reaction to it.

917
00:54:23,849 --> 00:54:26,590
Never met this guy before in my life until that
moment.

918
00:54:27,824 --> 00:54:29,844
And something like that is pretty cool.

919
00:54:29,905 --> 00:54:33,204
But, anyway, so we broke it down into a bunch
of collections.

920
00:54:33,264 --> 00:54:41,550
And so it's like bump and run, pitch shot, flop
shot, bunker play, putting, getting ready like,

921
00:54:41,550 --> 00:54:43,250
tournament getting ready for tournaments.

922
00:54:44,110 --> 00:54:46,510
I've got interviews with legends on there.

923
00:54:46,510 --> 00:54:51,390
Like, I mean, I don't know if you explored any
of those, but those are really cool, the stuff

924
00:54:51,390 --> 00:54:58,194
with Lee Trevino, Ben Crenshaw, I've got Keith
Mitchell, Matt Kuchar, Aaron Oberholser on

925
00:54:58,194 --> 00:54:58,694
there.

926
00:54:58,835 --> 00:55:04,914
Some really, really cool stuff as far as what
these players are feeling for certain shots

927
00:55:04,914 --> 00:55:08,140
around the greens that they're doing.

928
00:55:08,140 --> 00:55:20,335
So it's a great way to, if you like the
philosophies that I am sort of saying here

929
00:55:20,335 --> 00:55:26,494
right now, it's a great way to dive deeper
into, and I really do break it down into step

930
00:55:26,494 --> 00:55:29,295
by step, like, this is what I want you to
understand.

931
00:55:29,295 --> 00:55:30,735
This is what I want you to work on.

932
00:55:30,735 --> 00:55:32,159
This is what I want you to feel.

933
00:55:33,039 --> 00:55:34,719
And you can go through the whole program.

934
00:55:34,719 --> 00:55:37,219
We've got 280-plus videos on there.

935
00:55:37,440 --> 00:55:43,119
It's a website first, but we just launched the
app last week too.

936
00:55:43,119 --> 00:55:43,679
That's big.

937
00:55:43,679 --> 00:55:44,175
Yeah.

938
00:55:44,414 --> 00:55:44,574
Yeah.

939
00:55:44,574 --> 00:55:50,974
And the app is, I mean, you sign up on the
website first, and then once you do that,

940
00:55:51,775 --> 00:55:56,494
anybody can download the app, but you have to
then sign in using your website.

941
00:55:56,494 --> 00:55:56,735
You don't

942
00:55:56,735 --> 00:55:58,594
wanna have to pay Apple their 30%.

943
00:55:59,710 --> 00:56:01,650
I think it's closer to 40.

944
00:56:01,710 --> 00:56:02,450
Oh, jeez.

945
00:56:02,829 --> 00:56:05,150
But, anyway, yeah, it's great.

946
00:56:05,150 --> 00:56:06,769
The app is super clean.

947
00:56:07,150 --> 00:56:10,210
We actually had a cool feature where we just
went live.

948
00:56:10,349 --> 00:56:17,635
I was at the BMW Championship last week working
with Sam Burns and Christiaan Bezuidenhout, and

949
00:56:17,635 --> 00:56:23,734
so I went live for, you know, about 12 minutes
there on the golf course on a Monday morning,

950
00:56:23,875 --> 00:56:25,875
and it was really cool.

951
00:56:25,875 --> 00:56:31,410
Like, did a thing just talking about the 17th
hole and how it would be a pivotal hole for the

952
00:56:31,410 --> 00:56:32,150
golf tournament.

953
00:56:33,090 --> 00:56:36,309
It turned out to be a pivotal hole, but,
unfortunately, Keegan was putting.

954
00:56:36,690 --> 00:56:41,204
I thought he might be, like, you know, a little
bit long and having to chip back, but what

955
00:56:41,204 --> 00:56:42,885
a hell of a freaking 5-iron, by

956
00:56:42,885 --> 00:56:43,204
the way.

957
00:56:43,204 --> 00:56:44,485
I mean, talking about that shot.

958
00:56:44,565 --> 00:56:45,045
Insane.

959
00:56:45,045 --> 00:56:48,644
Because I'm sitting there watching, and I'm
like, gosh.

960
00:56:48,644 --> 00:56:52,085
He's gotta hit this thing a mile in the air in
order to keep it on the green.

961
00:56:52,085 --> 00:56:55,704
And sure enough, he just hit that beautiful
high 5-iron, Jason.

962
00:56:56,019 --> 00:56:57,860
Well, and I think that's what we were kinda
talking about.

963
00:56:57,860 --> 00:57:03,380
Like, that's what I was talking about in my
live thing, which was when guys are gonna be

964
00:57:03,380 --> 00:57:07,860
back there in the fairway, it was gonna be if
they're between clubs, they're gonna choose the

965
00:57:07,860 --> 00:57:10,784
shorter club because that bunker was no problem
at all.

966
00:57:10,944 --> 00:57:16,304
And so I think he chose the 5-iron rather than
the 4-iron because he's like, I'm gonna send

967
00:57:16,304 --> 00:57:16,784
the 5-iron.

968
00:57:16,784 --> 00:57:20,565
I'm gonna hit as hard as I can, and it landed,
like, just barely over that bunker.

969
00:57:21,025 --> 00:57:25,105
And it was an unbelievable shot, but he was not
gonna bring long into play because long was

970
00:57:25,105 --> 00:57:27,170
just not great.

971
00:57:28,589 --> 00:57:29,570
I love that.

972
00:57:30,989 --> 00:57:33,150
That insight right there is awesome.

973
00:57:33,150 --> 00:57:40,484
Now where can people go to sign up for the
website, to sign up for the app, and so forth?

974
00:57:40,484 --> 00:57:44,244
Give them the name and everything right now,
and I'll make sure that this is all in the

975
00:57:44,244 --> 00:57:46,585
details for this episode as well.

976
00:57:47,125 --> 00:57:47,444
Yeah.

977
00:57:47,444 --> 00:57:50,585
So shortgamechef.com is where you want to go.

978
00:57:51,570 --> 00:57:55,510
And yeah, we're starting to develop the
community out a bit more as well.

979
00:57:55,570 --> 00:58:01,010
So we're gonna have places on there where you
can post your pitch shots, your bunker shots,

980
00:58:01,010 --> 00:58:02,769
your putting, whatever it might be.

981
00:58:02,769 --> 00:58:06,144
And I'll be able to write back and comment and
say, hey.

982
00:58:06,144 --> 00:58:08,565
Work on this or do this drill or try this.

983
00:58:09,025 --> 00:58:14,625
And we're really wanting to grow a great
community on this new platform.

984
00:58:14,625 --> 00:58:18,144
So, yeah, shortgamechef.com is the place to
check it out.

985
00:58:18,144 --> 00:58:22,309
And once you sign up there, you get access to
the app, and you can take me everywhere.

986
00:58:22,530 --> 00:58:23,170
Love that.

987
00:58:23,170 --> 00:58:25,489
Now, rapid-fire Q&A here.

988
00:58:25,489 --> 00:58:26,210
You ready for this?

989
00:58:26,210 --> 00:58:27,890
I'm gonna put you on the hot seat.

990
00:58:27,890 --> 00:58:29,989
Who's your favorite player that you've worked
with?

991
00:58:31,969 --> 00:58:32,469
Oh.

992
00:58:33,010 --> 00:58:33,170
You

993
00:58:33,170 --> 00:58:34,630
can only choose one.

994
00:58:35,864 --> 00:58:37,625
That is a hard one.

995
00:58:37,625 --> 00:58:39,224
And that was my evil laugh too.

996
00:58:39,224 --> 00:58:39,465
Jeez.

997
00:58:39,465 --> 00:58:39,785
That creep.

998
00:58:39,945 --> 00:58:40,105
Yeah.

999
00:58:40,105 --> 00:58:41,804
That was a hard one.

1000
00:58:42,425 --> 00:58:53,820
You know, I would say that the people that have
had the most impact for me have been Keith

1001
00:58:53,820 --> 00:58:55,360
Mitchell and Anna Nordqvist.

1002
00:58:55,820 --> 00:58:56,140
Okay.

1003
00:58:56,140 --> 00:58:58,380
I'll allow it just because, yeah.

1004
00:58:58,380 --> 00:58:59,340
Well, one on each tour.

1005
00:58:59,340 --> 00:58:59,739
Yeah.

1006
00:58:59,739 --> 00:59:00,940
That's the first part.

1007
00:59:00,940 --> 00:59:01,994
I'll take that.

1008
00:59:02,075 --> 00:59:06,235
That was It was it was neat to be able to you
know, when when Anna and I started, it was neat

1009
00:59:06,235 --> 00:59:13,355
to be able to you know, she was, like, you
know, 95th in the world rankings, and she was

1010
00:59:13,355 --> 00:59:18,920
not in a great place in in her golf game and
her in her mind and her short game.

1011
00:59:19,460 --> 00:59:24,500
And a year and a half later, after we started
working together, short game really came around

1012
00:59:24,500 --> 00:59:26,260
and she ended up winning the British Open.

1013
00:59:26,260 --> 00:59:30,795
And at the end of that year, she was, 15th or
16th in the world.

1014
00:59:31,575 --> 00:59:34,315
So to me, like that was, that was, that was
pretty neat.

1015
00:59:34,535 --> 00:59:39,974
And then Keith Mitchell, he's, he's just been,
he's been a great, a great client, a great

1016
00:59:39,974 --> 00:59:46,489
friend, and he's, and he's talked my praises up
to people like Colin Morikawa, people like Sam

1017
00:59:46,489 --> 00:59:52,030
Burns, who then reached out to me, you know, on
on Keith's sort of recommendation.

1018
00:59:52,809 --> 00:59:53,869
That is awesome.

1019
00:59:53,930 --> 01:00:01,894
Now, who's the best, or should I say, who has
the best short game that you've worked with?

1020
01:00:03,155 --> 01:00:07,155
Oh, well, I mean, if they've got a great short
game, they're not usually coming to see me for

1021
01:00:07,155 --> 01:00:07,655
hours.

1022
01:00:11,000 --> 01:00:12,699
That is a really good question.

1023
01:00:17,719 --> 01:00:18,460
Oh, man.

1024
01:00:19,000 --> 01:00:22,519
There was a mini tour player that I worked with
named Xander Winston.

1025
01:00:23,264 --> 01:00:27,525
He hit some pretty nasty ones, and we worked
pretty hard at it together.

1026
01:00:28,625 --> 01:00:33,664
He would hit some pretty nasty short game
shots, but you wouldn't necessarily know about

1027
01:00:33,664 --> 01:00:33,824
him.

1028
01:00:33,824 --> 01:00:40,849
But, but yeah, he's got some pretty good hands,
but I'd say Sam Burns is starting to climb the

1029
01:00:40,849 --> 01:00:41,170
ranks.

1030
01:00:41,170 --> 01:00:45,650
He's starting to get really good around the
greens, but he's, you know, the thing that's

1031
01:00:45,650 --> 01:00:50,869
tricky is that when you're a great ball striker
and someone that creates a ton of ball speed,

1032
01:00:51,724 --> 01:00:56,204
short game is a little bit more difficult
because we want to remove that ball speed.

1033
01:00:56,204 --> 01:01:00,144
We want to slow the golf ball down while still
maintaining a good amount of spin.

1034
01:01:00,844 --> 01:01:06,250
So there's a dichotomy and a push and pull
there of like, well, I wanna smash it, but then

1035
01:01:06,250 --> 01:01:07,769
also, like, I wanna slow it down.

1036
01:01:07,769 --> 01:01:10,489
So, you know, there's that push and pull.

1037
01:01:10,489 --> 01:01:16,269
So, my job is usually to help them understand,
okay.

1038
01:01:16,489 --> 01:01:20,275
Inside of 50 yards, these are the tenets that
we gotta focus on.

1039
01:01:20,275 --> 01:01:22,855
Outside of 50 yards, you go back to smashing
it.

1040
01:01:23,954 --> 01:01:27,315
I've never put that in that perspective before.

1041
01:01:27,315 --> 01:01:32,420
Because anybody that's ever played golf with me
is like, you're a ball striker, but your short

1042
01:01:32,420 --> 01:01:33,159
game sucks.

1043
01:01:33,460 --> 01:01:34,179
And it's like, yeah.

1044
01:01:34,179 --> 01:01:35,139
I know this.

1045
01:01:35,139 --> 01:01:35,699
Thank you.

1046
01:01:35,699 --> 01:01:37,219
That's a typical pattern.

1047
01:01:37,219 --> 01:01:37,539
Yeah.

1048
01:01:38,659 --> 01:01:40,760
That is music to my ears, Parker.

1049
01:01:42,099 --> 01:01:43,239
You have no idea.

1050
01:01:43,505 --> 01:01:45,744
And then we've talked about it on this podcast.

1051
01:01:45,744 --> 01:01:48,545
This is gonna be my last question for you in
the rapid Q&A.

1052
01:01:48,545 --> 01:01:54,704
But since you do work with Sam Burns and, you
know, you're getting him up to where he needs

1053
01:01:54,704 --> 01:01:59,239
to be, so to speak, with the short game, we've
kind of sat there and been like, man, there's

1054
01:01:59,239 --> 01:02:03,179
something just a little bit this guy's got all
the talent in the world.

1055
01:02:03,559 --> 01:02:05,739
Why doesn't he win way more?

1056
01:02:06,280 --> 01:02:08,920
And we just haven't really put our finger on
it.

1057
01:02:08,920 --> 01:02:12,460
So I wonder, have you been able to put your
finger on it?

1058
01:02:13,944 --> 01:02:15,484
You know, I haven't.

1059
01:02:15,944 --> 01:02:17,545
I think the world of him.

1060
01:02:17,944 --> 01:02:19,704
He's a great dude, number one.

1061
01:02:19,704 --> 01:02:20,764
He's a great human.

1062
01:02:20,984 --> 01:02:22,844
He's an incredible golfer.

1063
01:02:24,424 --> 01:02:31,539
You know, I think that it's like you look at it
from like, I haven't really watched any of his

1064
01:02:31,539 --> 01:02:34,260
rounds in person, tournament rounds.

1065
01:02:34,260 --> 01:02:39,059
We walked practice rounds together, but I
haven't walked any tournament rounds with him.

1066
01:02:39,059 --> 01:02:47,695
It'd be interesting to sort of observe because
he's one of those players where he may have

1067
01:02:47,914 --> 01:02:53,534
nine birdies and an eagle, but then he may also
have three bogeys and two doubles.

1068
01:02:53,675 --> 01:02:54,175
Exactly.

1069
01:02:54,235 --> 01:02:58,039
And so, you know, I don't know.

1070
01:02:58,039 --> 01:03:00,860
I don't know if Sam knows.

1071
01:03:02,680 --> 01:03:09,160
I'm not exactly sure, but, you know, the thing
that I love about what he does is that you look

1072
01:03:09,160 --> 01:03:14,945
at his scorecards and so many times after he
makes a bogey, he makes a birdie.

1073
01:03:15,005 --> 01:03:15,324
Yeah.

1074
01:03:15,324 --> 01:03:16,925
The bounce-back stat, it's a good one.

1075
01:03:16,925 --> 01:03:19,985
I mean, he is insane with that.

1076
01:03:21,405 --> 01:03:28,980
But, yeah, I think that it's been a good
relationship so far, and I think I'm trying to

1077
01:03:28,980 --> 01:03:32,659
see how I can be a helpful member of his team.

1078
01:03:33,860 --> 01:03:39,545
I know that he's feeling more confident with
his short game, and I think that can then also

1079
01:03:39,545 --> 01:03:41,385
bleed back into the full swing.

1080
01:03:41,385 --> 01:03:42,684
and he can

1081
01:03:43,144 --> 01:03:44,924
Get more aggressive, you know?

1082
01:03:45,385 --> 01:03:49,784
So, you know, it's just, it's all about just,
you know, finding a way to kind of blend in

1083
01:03:49,784 --> 01:03:55,000
there with his full swing coach and his caddie
and just all of us, you know, as a team being

1084
01:03:55,000 --> 01:04:00,599
able to, you know, just kind of help get him in
the right spot and help prepare him as best as

1085
01:04:00,599 --> 01:04:08,244
we can so that he can, you know, reach his
dreams, which, you know, I think he would love

1086
01:04:08,244 --> 01:04:10,505
to beat Scottie this week at the Tour
Championship.

1087
01:04:11,204 --> 01:04:12,664
That would be solid.

1088
01:04:13,684 --> 01:04:19,925
That might lead to a Tour Championship victory,
but Xander might have some thoughts around that

1089
01:04:19,925 --> 01:04:20,489
as well.

1090
01:04:20,650 --> 01:04:21,710
We shall see.

1091
01:04:22,409 --> 01:04:24,489
But Parker, thank you so much, man.

1092
01:04:24,489 --> 01:04:26,829
It's been an absolute pleasure having you on
the show.

1093
01:04:26,889 --> 01:04:31,929
Your insights around the short game are
incredibly valuable, which in this short amount

1094
01:04:31,929 --> 01:04:33,764
of time, I've already realized.

1095
01:04:33,764 --> 01:04:39,444
And I'm like, wow, I need to get out to a short
game area immediately and go start practicing

1096
01:04:39,444 --> 01:04:41,224
some of this stuff right now.

1097
01:04:41,284 --> 01:04:43,045
I've got some ideas as well.

1098
01:04:43,045 --> 01:04:48,110
So once we end the recording here, I do want to
pick your brain around something that I'm

1099
01:04:48,110 --> 01:04:51,550
thinking of, and that could benefit our
audience.

1100
01:04:51,550 --> 01:04:57,730
And then from there, we will, but folks,
definitely check out Parker's online platform

1101
01:04:57,789 --> 01:05:02,855
and program, and I believe you've said it with
shortgamechef.com, if I'm not mistaken.

1102
01:05:02,914 --> 01:05:05,414
And, folks, until next time.

1103
01:05:05,554 --> 01:05:06,674
We will see you later.

1104
01:05:06,674 --> 01:05:07,654
Peace out, everybody.

1105
01:05:08,168 --> 01:05:08,668
Thank

1106
01:05:17,048 --> 01:05:17,548
you.